Thoughts on my planed build

[DarkFox]

Hey guys,
Been a long time since i came on here looking at doing a new water cooled rig but its about that time. I've had this computer running in it current configuration for about 4 years now, and the stuff wasnt the hottest on the market when I built it...

Anyway, with this new setup, I think I'm going to build a case and have two water loops. Just trying to get an idea how you guys think this will cool.

The Plan:
I want to build a large plexi case. The case will have a divider in it. The mobo and a dvd drive will be on one side, the watercooling, hard drives, psu the other.

The motherboard side will get 2 - 4 of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103073
Two blue ones in the front, 1 or 2 red ones in the back. Trying to decide if I want to pay more to make them symetrical.

The other side, and included in the water loop is this:
Inside the case I want to build an enlcosure that will hold the radiators and give me a shroud, probably 6 inchs off the radiators, but sealed to them. If I got the room, might as well build enough standoff so I know its getting full flow from the radiators.

I want to have 2x 120.4 rads. They will be cooled with two of the fans listed above attached to the shroud.
http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-RX-480-...-pr-4430.html#
Is what I was looking at, but I just saw it says, "- G1/4" Ports." I was really looking to go with 1/2" all the way around, suggesstions?

That side of the case will also have two exhaust fans (also the PSU will be venting out obviously.)

I will use http://www.petrastechshop.com/swmcin12pu.html for pumps. Each loop will have its own.

One loop will be processor only, an I7 2600K overclocked as high as I can get for a stable daily use. Would like to see 5ghz (wouldnt we all.) Sounds dooable on these chips though.

The other loop will go to dual PNY GTX465s flashed to GTX470s. Both with mild overclock on them.

Let me know what you guys think. Enough or two much thermal capacity, not enough air flow? Poor desighn? Alternate parts, especialy the radiator? Want a nice thick one that wont break the bank and uses 1/2" fittings. Thanks for input.

Oh and before anyone asks, why those fans, they move a good amount of air and are ultra quiet. My current rig has a lot of fast spinning 120s and its pretty loud.

[AngelEyes]

I agree on the fans, I have had a 3 loop system for about 3-4 years now and the one thing I cant stand anymore is the sound of the fans. I am just sick of it and planning an upgrade to some similar huge *** fans to move more air quieter. I am making a custom desk/case/enclosure for the system to focus the airflow from 2 or 3 big fans through the radiators. I want a fast overclocked system but I also want quiet.

[DarkFox]

yeah, I have a thermaltake armor case now, with the side panel fan... that thing makes almost no noise on its own and the fans I linked claim to be good for 110 cfm each. So I would be pulling 220 cfm through 2 120x4 radiators.

Looking at "quiet" 120s its such a mixed bag. Most of the high flow low volume ones have many bad reviews about how the fans are actualy much louder then advertised. The only ones I see that get consistant good review for how quiet they are cost a little more, and move like 35cfm. yeah, theres ones that claim 65 cfm, but those all fall into the other category of bad reviews for noise. So at 35 cfm I would need 6-7 of them to get about the same airflow. So cost vs. perfromance vs. consistancy of noise reduction, the bigger fans start to look a lot better.

I just need to figure out if thats enough air flow for those size rads with that amount of thermal load.

[AngelEyes]

I think its very important to guide the air so that it makes as little turbulence around small objects, from what I have read its the edges of the fan blades and then the objects in the path of the air that cause the most noise through rapid changes in air pressure. The larger the fan the slower it can go and still move air. As it goes slower the air pressure changes at the fan blade edges diminish. The blades go from ripping the air to pulling at it, making far less noise.

To make this work though, you need larger air ducts to channel the air to the radiators that tapper the fans diameter to the radiators dimensions cleanly. The radiator is going to make some noise if the air is moving through it quickly, to many sharp little edges to tear at the air as it passes through. But its nothing compared to 120mm fan blades ripping the air apart and shoving it around.

I am taking the fans under the desk, making a big box that mounts under the computer that will hold a 300mm fan and channel the air to several radiators also mounted in the box. I plan on using a push and a pull 300mm and then possibly helper fans for the radiators. It will have a dust filter so the airflow stays clean. I am hopping that soundproofing and large fans and some use of rubber grommets and such on the mounting points will eliminate the fan noise and any vibration noise as well.

[musicfan]

Originally Posted by DarkFox

Hey guys,
Been a long time since i came on here looking at doing a new water cooled rig but its about that time. I've had this computer running in it current configuration for about 4 years now, and the stuff wasnt the hottest on the market when I built it...

Anyway, with this new setup, I think I'm going to build a case and have two water loops. Just trying to get an idea how you guys think this will cool.

The Plan:
I want to build a large plexi case. The case will have a divider in it. The mobo and a dvd drive will be on one side, the watercooling, hard drives, psu the other.

The motherboard side will get 2 - 4 of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103073
Two blue ones in the front, 1 or 2 red ones in the back. Trying to decide if I want to pay more to make them symetrical.

Great fans for low noise with decent cfm (i have 2 in my case) but not good static pressure so less effective for radiators

Originally Posted by DarkFox

The other side, and included in the water loop is this:
Inside the case I want to build an enlcosure that will hold the radiators and give me a shroud, probably 6 inchs off the radiators, but sealed to them. If I got the room, might as well build enough standoff so I know its getting full flow from the radiators.

well...maybe..., from what i read, the optimal shroud is 30 mm deep if they work at all to improve air flow and your 6" is about 150 mm so that may lessen some borderline static pressure?

Originally Posted by DarkFox

I want to have 2x 120.4 rads. They will be cooled with two of the fans listed above attached to the shroud.
http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-RX-480-...-pr-4430.html#
Is what I was looking at,

very nice (i have one and like it)

Originally Posted by DarkFox

but I just saw it says, "- G1/4" Ports." I was really looking to go with 1/2" all the way around, suggesstions?

the G 1/4" ports are for the bottom part of your fitting and G 1/4" is pretty much standard now so that is good; you can use pretty much your choice of either 3/8" or 1/2" fitting (that part is the top part of the fitting) - perhaps this video on fittings will help

Originally Posted by DarkFox

That side of the case will also have two exhaust fans (also the PSU will be venting out obviously.)

I will use http://www.petrastechshop.com/swmcin12pu.html for pumps. Each loop will have its own.

nice pumps (i have a couple also and like them)

Originally Posted by DarkFox

One loop will be processor only, an I7 2600K overclocked as high as I can get for a stable daily use. Would like to see 5ghz (wouldnt we all.) Sounds dooable on these chips though.

TDP 95 W as per Intel

Originally Posted by DarkFox

The other loop will go to dual PNY GTX465s flashed to GTX470s. Both with mild overclock on them.

two gtx470 in SLI may be 567 W load

Originally Posted by DarkFox

Let me know what you guys think. Enough or two much thermal capacity, not enough air flow? Poor desighn? Alternate parts, especialy the radiator? Want a nice thick one that wont break the bank and uses 1/2" fittings. Thanks for input.

Oh and before anyone asks, why those fans, they move a good amount of air and are ultra quiet. My current rig has a lot of fast spinning 120s and its pretty loud.

First off, you need to decide if you want to do two loops. If you use 120.4 x 2; you are going to be able to cool the whole thing in one loop if you wish. You could even save the price of a pump or double up your pumps for backup redundancy (dual tops to keep them in series) and other advanced options. And your huge radiator space will allow you to use less noisy fans. There will be some to argue that you have too much rad but starting with a huge radiator surface area really opens up your options, IMO. The only "problem" with lots of rad space is where to put them so if you have that down, then enjoy your two 120.4 rads.

If you do two loops then you really don't "need" a 120.4 for the new Sandy Bridge Chip at 95 W although some are pushing beyond 5 GHz. Or if you use it, you could probably use 800 rpm fans in pull only and it would cool fine.

And the 120.4 would be more than enough for your dual SLI. You could run slower (800 to 1200 rpm) fans with that because the GPU cards can run a bit hotter than a CPU usually.

So you could have a quiet PC without needing a fan controller because you have lots of rad. If you want to learn more about the relation between rads, heat load, and fan cfm/static pressure please see this on delta T

I wonder if you would best spend your time finding some 120 mm fans that you like for your rads. Here is a part 2 and part 6 & 8 on fans. I use the Scythe S-flex E at 1200 rpm full 12 V and it seems quiet to me (part 2) but there are newer fans like the Scythe Gentle Typhoons that are quite popular. You may not need the AP 15 (1850 rpm) and the AP 13 & 14 also got good ratings. The best budget fans probably remain the Yate Loons (sleeve bearings may not last as long and may wobble a bit in horizontal but these are good fans loved by many water-coolers on a budget). Martin in the testing likes the medium YL but some like to under-volt the high speed YL to 5 V and get them very quiet. So listen to a lot of those You Tube videos that Martin made until you find something you like and order a couple to see if you like them before ordering a big batch for your rads would be the most cost-effective approach, i think.

And you should be able to get by with only 8 fans in pull only instead of 16 in push/pull since you have so much rad (that's 8 less fans @$15/fan so a $120 savings or the price of the rad).

It's a bit overwhelming with dozens of fans. And it's a huge topic with smatterings of science mixed with opinion so please ask questions. Hope this helps.

[DarkFox]

thanks musicfan. i didnt even think about the one pump and create a longer series... that saves a bit of cash.

Res -> pump -> rad -> CPU -> rad -> GPUs -> Res

so simple it just might work!

Dont think its gonna be 8 or 16 fans. basicaly my idea is to have a screen, then rads behind them side by side, an integrated shroud I'm gonna build into the case, then the two 200mm fans pulling across the side by side rads with however big a standoff i build into the shroud.

I know the rads are probably bigger then I need, but I dont really mind that. Just want to make sure that much rad with 220cfm of flow, is enough to cool what I'm gonna run.

[Spawn-Inc]

as music fan said, those 200mm fans will not work very well with rads due to poor performance as far as pressure goes. it cannot push the air through something, it's meant for an open flow with no obstructions.

and all the G1/4 means is the port is threaded for that style/size. but it's not 1/4".

so you will be able to use 1/2" barbs and or compressions.

for the sake of tubing and clean looks route the loop as follows, res>pump>cpu>gpu>rads or res>pumps>rads>cpu>gpu.

[DarkFox]

i wouldn't mind doubling the tubes back, the point was simply I didn't want to pump hot water into the video cards. Also, I'm at a bit of a loss here, 220cfm is 220 cfm... Radiators are not that restrictive and especially once you put in a shroud so that your pulling from the entirety of the radiator instead of of just where the fans are against the rad.

I have no doubt that you guys are right for optimal efficency I can do it that way, but thats kinda the reason I'm considering overbuilding it. Spend some extra money on more rad then I need so I can run those slow and quiet fans and have a stealth pc.

If I wanted the most efficient I could get I'd grab high speed fans that move tons of air and run this with 120.2 rads (like I have now,) but I'm going slow and big so that I get very quiet.

[Spawn-Inc]

Originally Posted by DarkFox

i wouldn't mind doubling the tubes back, the point was simply I didn't want to pump hot water into the video cards. Also, I'm at a bit of a loss here, 220cfm is 220 cfm... Radiators are not that restrictive and especially once you put in a shroud so that your pulling from the entirety of the radiator instead of of just where the fans are against the rad.

I have no doubt that you guys are right for optimal efficency I can do it that way, but thats kinda the reason I'm considering overbuilding it. Spend some extra money on more rad then I need so I can run those slow and quiet fans and have a stealth pc.

If I wanted the most efficient I could get I'd grab high speed fans that move tons of air and run this with 120.2 rads (like I have now,) but I'm going slow and big so that I get very quiet.

it doesn't matter where the parts are within your loop (though always have the res before the pump, at least for your first loop or 2). the reason being is that the water is flowing around the loop fairly quickly so it doesn't have time to sit there and pick up alot of heat. as a result at any one point in your loop your temps will vary at most 2C. for example if the water entering the cpu block is 20C, it will leave the block at 21C +/-1C. it won't be 20C higher or anything like that.



as for the fans, give it a shot, but i doubt very much you will see alot of performance from it. the larger blades and slower speed just can push the air through. the air will just hit the rad and bounce back out. you could always get a few low speed 120mm fans later on. which is what i would do from the start instead of building a shroud and adapting it.

[DarkFox]

makes sense. I will run a shroud either way, its just weather I make a bunch of little holes, or 2 large ones.

[musicfan]

this recent thread on 200 mm fans/rads offers an explanation why PC 200 mm fans don't generate as much pressure and was helpful to me; good luck on your build DarkFox

[DarkFox]

its a good read, and I see what there saying about the slow speed combined with the large fan spacing, makes sense that as you increase resistance they start chopping and leaking instead of blowing... But then the two fans they link in that thread go 51db and 67db... Not where I wanted to be. Maybe I'll end up just making an adapter and mount 8 moddest 120mm fans, something in the 25db range that really moves some air. Wont be as bad as I am right now, but will really move some air.

Or I can just grab one of these 100v AC fans off my machines at work that move enormous amounts of air from inside a confined space and just say screw the noise. I dont know what the CFM is on them, but there pretty crazy.

Actualy just looked them up, not bad.... 60hz 115volt = 229cfm @ 50db. There 172mm

Dont think I'll do it, but could be nice.. 2 of them get me over 400 cfm. Max static pressure of 186 Pa? I recognize the unit of measure but do not have anything to compare against or know how much pressure 2 120.4s need.

http://www.bmf-systemparts.com/downloads/pa.pdf

[Spawn-Inc]

honestly, because your getting the RX series of rad's from XSPC you could put very low speed fans, like yate loon low speed ones and you will get far more cooling from those vs the larger fans.

my high speed yates at 5v are very low noise IMO (though i run open case with 25 fans total) so yate loon lows should be near silent.


or if you have the money, these, http://www.jab-tech.com/Scythe-Gentl...m-pr-4499.html

[AngelEyes]

so my big fan plan isn't going to work ether...

good thread though learned a bit about fans.

[DarkFox]

So I picked up the box for the fans I just put in my kids computer. I bought them for his build cause they looked good and moved decent air, didnt realize they have a decent static pressure and noise rating also.... Looked around a few places seem to agree, these CoolMaster Sickleflows look, sound, and perform well. Maybe I'll just go with those all around.

200rpm
69.69CFM
2.94 mmH^2O
19 dba

I heard them in person, they dont seem too loud and pass the hand blowometer test.

--------------------
Nagoshi has been helping me out trying to get a 3D render, its hard to make something in my head come out on his computer so there a few things were still going to tweak, but this will help give a better idea. The two circles in the front right are supposed to be vertical slits for he radiator, my fault the way i presented him with my hand scetchs.

[DarkFox]

Hey all, got a lot of help from you guys and just wanted to let you know I started my build thread and uploaded the first few pics. Gona be monitoring that thread mostly now but figured I would update you. The case isnt going to be some crazy sexy custom case anymore (budget) but this should work:
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...d.php?t=352951