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[musicfan]

The PT Nuke PHN should kill what it can reach. The concentration they suggest is likely optimal. But it's hard for it to penetrate if there is a mass of algae already grown. That's why you sometimes have to scrub away particulate mass to allow topical disinfectant to reach all the infection. And you should (in theory) get better results if the amount the disinfectant has to kill is lessened by draining the infection (solution) or scrubbing (or cutting) away the particulate in the tubing.

Perhaps it's from the cold cathode. You can post-pone cutting open the tube and watch the site to see if it improves, stays the same, or worsens. Let us know. If you get a pic, please put it up. Good luck.

add: scooped by Mr. Scott...yet again

[Stridulent]

Sorry it took so long for the pictures, I've had a long weekend. Anyways, here they are. The lights are behind the plate that stretches across and says "Silverstone." You can tell by the tubing that comes out in front of the plate that the area of tubing that was not in contact with the UV cold cathodes was unaffected.

[musicfan]

I find the top picture most helpful and attached a smaller version. Are you talking about the area where I put the red arrow? If so, and I may be wrong, here is my opinion:

I don't see clumps of algae or anything that looks organic. None of the tubing actually looks clear but perhaps that is the lighting? I suspect, as you suggested, you have damaged tubing.

I don't know the cause. It may be your light as you suggest. Can you tell us anything more about what you use?

Another possibility is bad luck with a bad batch of tubing. There is some suggestion that heat may accelerate this and who knows how something is stored?

In any case, since this looks less like infection to me, be happy. But, you will need to watch carefully for further breakdown of tubing or anything that looks like algae until you are certain.

The safest thing is drain the loop sooner rather than later and certainly if you see anything. You might as well order new tubing if you need more. Watch your loop and do load temps regularly at least weekly. If the tubing changes progress and the tube becomes totally opaque, then on my two experiments on my own system, the plasticizer is leaching and already in the CPU block.

Rather than me drone on, read the thread in my signature called plasticizer. It's mostly pictures of how to tell algae from plasticizer and it shows brown tubes with my old Masterkleer.

I would love to hear from Mr. Scott and others.

Stridulent, I suggest you practice taking photos because it's a part of troubleshooting visual problems like this. Our diagnosis may only be as good as your pictures - like a doctor trying to read a poor quality X-Ray.

I don't have a good macro lens at the moment and need to be about a foot back or my camera won't focus. You may have to read your camera manual and practice - we all do. About 800 to 1200 pixels wide is good but focus is the most important. Attaching it (Go Advanced) with a thumbnail makes it easier for the viewer IMO.

Taking a picture every week or so would be good if you are going to watch. Label them with MS Paint, then save them on a folder on your desktop so you can compare. Put it with your labeled load data that you take a screen shot of. Let us know how it goes and post here so we can help. Please feel free to ask any questions. Good luck.

[Stridulent]

I plan on replacing the tubing, but I don't know what has caused this one to become murky and brown. Is it the lights? Is it the tubing? I'd like to buy the same tubing (UV blue) but not if its going to do the same thing.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by it out of focus. I felt the pictures were pretty good quality. I had to scale them down so that they could be uploaded, but thats all. There is no texture or anything in the tube, it looks just like the pictures I posted.



Additional Comment:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12...c99s1614#blank


Would this tubing be a good bet?

Additional Comment:

Also, this the is UV cold cathode kit I am using:

http://www.xoxide.com/cathode.html

[musicfan]

Your scaling them down made way easier to see. And labeling them with your text and arrow is great. Last night I could not them fit them in my 1920 x 1200 screen and wasn't sure the area you meant. So today, they are just fine. Label them like this and you will get more attention faster.

When you search for interactions between lighting and tubing, let us know what you find. I don't know what to tell you about the Danger Den (Monsoon?) tubing since it is newly marketed.

In spite of the bad press, I am going on my 6th month of Primochill Primoflex LRT clear and it looks great (hope I don't jinx it now, ha-ha). That's better luck than I had with Tygon 3603. Masterkleer was the best but only comes in that one size I think, 7/16" ID. When I find the perfect tubing, I will let the world know. But until then...Good luck.

add: sorry didn't see your additional comments; I think that new tubing from Frozen looks fine and let's do some searches on that light and tubing and share what we find.

[Stridulent]

Originally Posted by musicfan

Your scaling them down made way easier to see. And labeling them with your text and arrow is great. Last night I could not them fit them in my 1920 x 1200 screen and wasn't sure the area you meant. So today, they are just fine. Label them like this and you will get more attention faster.

When you search for interactions between lighting and tubing, let us know what you find. I don't know what to tell you about the Danger Den (Monsoon?) tubing since it is newly marketed.

In spite of the bad press, I am going on my 6th month of Primochill Primoflex LRT clear and it looks great (hope I don't jinx it now, ha-ha). That's better luck than I had with Tygon 3603. Masterkleer was the best but only comes in that one size I think, 7/16" ID. When I find the perfect tubing, I will let the world know. But until then...Good luck.

add: sorry didn't see you additional comments; I think that new tubing from Frozen looks fine and let's do some searches on that light and tubing and share what we find.

AH! Now it makes sense. Yes, sorry when I first uploaded them they were huge. I immediately worked to scaling them down but I guess I could not beat your response time

I have about a ft extra of that danger den tubing and I think I am going to put it in my case in front of the UV lights, with no water or anything, and see what happens. Just kind of crummy if UV light causes UV tubing to do this

[musicfan]

Originally Posted by Stridulent

AH! Now it makes sense. Yes, sorry when I first uploaded them they were huge. I immediately worked to scaling them down but I guess I could not beat your response time

No problem. They look great now with helpful labels.

Originally Posted by Stridulent

I have about a ft extra of that danger den tubing and I think I am going to put it in my case in front of the UV lights, with no water or anything, and see what happens. Just kind of crummy if UV light causes UV tubing to do this

That sounds like a good science experiment. Please share you results. Yes, it is crummy and I don't understand how you could be the first to have this happen. But mixed with some bad tubing who knows?

After looking at your light, it seems to emit a typical black-light or black-light blue spectrum, which is violet and UVA. This was helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet. I thought window glass blocked "UV". But it does not block UVA - only 90% of UVB (reason we don't get sunburned under glass). So UVA from sunlight can decompose tubing even inside window glass. And we know that UV light can cause plastic degradation. Apparently UV Blue fluoresces because of an optical brightener (cool pic here) that is likely mixed with the PVC.

Wonder if it would help to write the black-light maker or tubing makers seeking any bright ideas?

[Mr.Scott]

Are you a smoker?
Here's my take. It's a tubing issue. Early stages of a plasticizer issue. That accounts for the white stuff you see. Also, you'll notice that most of the what you call brown areas are located right directly in what I consider your path of airflow inside your case. It could be just lighting from your pic amplifying a little extra dust or tar stain on the exterior of the tubing.
In any case, I'd just replace the tubing and do a quick flush.

[musicfan]

Thanks Mr. Scott.

[Stridulent]

Originally Posted by Mr.Scott

Are you a smoker?
Here's my take. It's a tubing issue. Early stages of a plasticizer issue. That accounts for the white stuff you see. Also, you'll notice that most of the what you call brown areas are located right directly in what I consider your path of airflow inside your case. It could be just lighting from your pic amplifying a little extra dust or tar stain on the exterior of the tubing.
In any case, I'd just replace the tubing and do a quick flush.

Thanks for the input Mr Scott, and you too, musicfan. I spent a few hours today trying to find a similar occurrence on the web and had no luck to my surprise. I cut off a small section of tubing that I had left and laid it on the brown area right outside of the cpu block. I'll go ahead and place an order of that primochill, too.

Do you think gunk has built up in my block, radiator and pump? Or is it just at a discoloration stage? And, are the lights I linked above OK?

[Mr.Scott]

Anytime guys.
I think just a quick flush will take care of any issues internally. It doesn't appear to be too bad.

[indyrocker]

Originally Posted by musicfan

Your scaling them down made way easier to see. And labeling them with your text and arrow is great. Last night I could not them fit them in my 1920 x 1200 screen and wasn't sure the area you meant. So today, they are just fine. Label them like this and you will get more attention faster.

When you search for interactions between lighting and tubing, let us know what you find. I don't know what to tell you about the Danger Den (Monsoon?) tubing since it is newly marketed.

In spite of the bad press, I am going on my 6th month of Primochill Primoflex LRT clear and it looks great (hope I don't jinx it now, ha-ha). That's better luck than I had with Tygon 3603. Masterkleer was the best but only comes in that one size I think, 7/16" ID. When I find the perfect tubing, I will let the world know. But until then...Good luck.

add: sorry didn't see your additional comments; I think that new tubing from Frozen looks fine and let's do some searches on that light and tubing and share what we find.

Yah I think the primochill just had a few bad batches as my uv read is still going strong tho I will know more probably on the 4th since there are to fireworks displays in my area due to these blasted fires in Colorado I will be spending the 4th doing a case mod and taking down the system for a checkup and refreshing.

[musicfan]

Originally Posted by Stridulent

Do you think gunk has built up in my block, radiator and pump? Or is it just at a discoloration stage? And, are the lights I linked above OK?

There is not a lot on the web on this because most will change their tubing when it discolors. If you looked at that link on Plasticizer, I am purposely trying to find out what happens if you don't drain & change. In my series of two different brands, first comes the cloudy, then comes the opaque. During the cloudy, I never saw plasticizer with the naked eye although it was likely there in retrospect. When the tubing got opaque and I could not see through it to read letters behind it, that was my end point. By then I had ruined my reservoir with plasticizer smearing and had to remove many chunks from my CPU block (pictures on that other thread). I did that because I could find no one else on the web crazy enough to risk a water-cooling system and I had to know about plasticizer versus infection. A couple years ago everyone was going "infection" and at least now most recognize plasticizer. Look at the pic with the plasticizer wrapped around the silver coil or the shot-glass picture for more.

Based on my limited experience, the problem responds well to draining, changing tubing, opening the blocks and scrubbing them with a toothbrush and soapy water. I did lose my reservoir possible because I cannot open it up. I filtered everything but could find no more plasticizer. That was January and the new clear Primochill Primoflex LRT is still clear. But that's all I know. The many threads on tubing seem to indicate we are in an era where tubing stocks are not reliable. So unless you want to risk your reservoir, you should do what we suggest. And yes, if I had to bet, I would say that anyone that started off with clear tubing and now has opaque either has plasticizer in the system or soon will.

I do not know how much the lights contributed. Running the lights depends on how lucky you feel. If you do run the lights and have to repeat everything it will interesting to us but possible a PITA for you. Let us know either way. Hope that helps. Hang in there.

[Stridulent]

Originally Posted by musicfan

There is not a lot on the web on this because most will change their tubing when it discolors. If you looked at that link on Plasticizer, I am purposely trying to find out what happens if you don't drain & change. In my series of two different brands, first comes the cloudy, then comes the opaque. During the cloudy, I never saw plasticizer with the naked eye although it was likely there in retrospect. When the tubing got opaque and I could not see through it to read letters behind it, that was my end point. By then I had ruined my reservoir with plasticizer smearing and had to remove many chunks from my CPU block (pictures on that other thread). I did that because I could find no one else on the web crazy enough to risk a water-cooling system and I had to know about plasticizer versus infection. A couple years ago everyone was going "infection" and at least now most recognize plasticizer. Look at the pic with the plasticizer wrapped around the silver coil or the shot-glass picture for more.

Based on my limited experience, the problem responds well to draining, changing tubing, opening the blocks and scrubbing them with a toothbrush and soapy water. I did lose my reservoir possible because I cannot open it up. I filtered everything but could find no more plasticizer. That was January and the new clear Primochill Primoflex LRT is still clear. But that's all I know. The many threads on tubing seem to indicate we are in an era where tubing stocks are not reliable. So unless you want to risk your reservoir, you should do what we suggest. And yes, if I had to bet, I would say that anyone that started off with clear tubing and now has opaque either has plasticizer in the system or soon will.

I do not know how much the lights contributed. Running the lights depends on how lucky you feel. If you do run the lights and have to repeat everything it will interesting to us but possible a PITA for you. Let us know either way. Hope that helps. Hang in there.

I will keep you guys posted on my findings. I plan on ordering double the hose needed just so I have spare. I guess its worth adding: this hose was stored for about 3 months before I used it. In storage, it remained in its plastic container inside a closed box. I wonder if that had anything to do with it? From what I got from Mr Scott, the clouding/plasticizer color changing is due to heat moreso than the lights maybe? In my searches, I found many people using and recommending the UV lights so I feel (and hope) that it was just a bad batch of tubing.

Additional Comment:

Ordered tubing from amazing for $16 ($22 on FCPU) with free shipping and no tax

Also ordered a SilverStone Air Penetrator in hopes that it will improve my radiator's performance, which has been lackluster so far, and is a different problem in itself. Gotta get my tubing squared away first.

[Mr.Scott]

The Penetrator's got a lack luster review. It's more of a sales gimmick. A 1" spacer between the rad and the fan will do more good.

[Stridulent]

Originally Posted by Mr.Scott

The Penetrator's got a lack luster review. It's more of a sales gimmick. A 1" spacer between the rad and the fan will do more good.

Is that in push or pull? And do I need a shroud or leave it open?

The 180mm's that came with my case only push 700 rpm, and the penetrator does 1200. So I am hoping for it to be somewhat of an improvement. I think I'm going to be adding an external 120.3 eventually, especially if I decide to watercool the gpu.

[Mr.Scott]

Always push if you only have one fan. Spacer can be made by gutting an old fan so only the frame is left. Didn't realize you only had 700 RPM to work with. In that case the Penetrator should help a little more.

[Stridulent]

Originally Posted by Mr.Scott

Always push if you only have one fan. Spacer can be made by gutting an old fan so only the frame is left. Didn't realize you only had 700 RPM to work with. In that case the Penetrator should help a little more.

Just wanted to give you guys an update. FedEx has gone beyond screwing up my shipment of the new parts so they probably won't come in until today or Saturday. However, I will be out of town again this weekend so I won't be able to work on the rig until Sunday.

Additional Comment:

Tubes have been changes out and machine is back up and running. Apologies as I am heading to work soon and cannot take pictures of the old tubes right now. I will do it first thing when I get home.

The old tubes had a chalky-white substance on the outer walls. Plasticizer? I didn't get a good chance to look at the brown parts but I will when I cut the tubes open this evening.

I had to mod my case some so that I could fit the radiator, homemade shroud, and air penetrator fan into 1 stack. Temps are looking better, but still not where I'd want to. Going to give it some time for the paste to set in.

[Stridulent]

Here are the pictures of the bad tubing compared to what it use to look like (clear). After I cut the tubing open, scraping the "cloudiness" off the tube with my finger would leave behind little rolled up flakes, very similar to that of an eraser on a pencil.

Let me know what you guys think, and as always, your help is very appreciated. Just took at a look at musicfan's plasticizer thread and I'm like 90% that is what it was. Just so weird that it happened so quickly. I'm afraid to put those UV lights next to my new tubing.

[musicfan]

I agree with you on the plasticizer. BTW, your second and third pictures are fantastic. That is damaged tubing for sure. But I am not any smarter about the lights than before.