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Old 05-14-2012, 03:09 PM   #1
eatdirt40
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2 Sets of ram going bad?

Hello everyone, a few months ago I was getting many errors intermittently, eventually figured out it was my ram (memtest would get errors). So I buy new sticks and all my problems go away for about a month, now the same errors are back, and memtest is failing again.

I see two scenario's, but I have been out of the game for a while so I'm posting this incase I'm missing something.

1) G.Skill is having issues (Both sets were G.Skill)

2) Something is killing my ram sticks

I am not overclocked, all stock specs. Is it possible my mobo could be killing sticks...or this is just bad luck?
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:29 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatdirt40 View Post
Hello everyone, a few months ago I was getting many errors intermittently, eventually figured out it was my ram (memtest would get errors). So I buy new sticks and all my problems go away for about a month, now the same errors are back, and memtest is failing again.

I see two scenario's, but I have been out of the game for a while so I'm posting this incase I'm missing something.

1) G.Skill is having issues (Both sets were G.Skill)

2) Something is killing my ram sticks

I am not overclocked, all stock specs. Is it possible my mobo could be killing sticks...or this is just bad luck?
More inclined to say that something's killing your ram.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:19 PM   #3
Josie Wales
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Me too. Did you manually set the ram voltage in the bios or did you rely on the motherboard auto setting? It would be a good idea to tell us a little bit about your hardware configuration and system settings.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by eatdirt40 View Post
(Both sets were G.Skill)
Two problems:

1. Sometimes by substituting memory from the same batch, you get more memory with similar defects, either because equally bad RAM chips were used or because the SPD information isn't quite right for the chips.

2. G.Skill, like most retail brands of memory, is usually made from unbranded chips that weren't tested very thoroughly by the module company, and G.Skill is one of the many companies that tests only with PCs, rather than with the very expensive machines that chip makers use. It's best to avoid modules whose chip manufacturer's logo or part number can't can't easily be read. IOW stick with Samsung or no-heatsink Crucial modules.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:01 PM   #5
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Thank you for the responses.

I have tested both sticks, one at a time. Right side stick seems to be good(Slot#2), which coincidently was similar results (Slot #2 good, slot#1 bad) when my last batch went bad on me.

The good stick is now in Slot#1 and stable(for now). I guess I will just run at 4gb for a while, and see if maybe its this certain slot thats killing sticks...

I've just never heard of ram killing mobo slots...
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:14 PM   #6
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You may want to examine the contacts in the DIMM slots under bright light and a magnifying glass, to see if any are discolored (corrosion? coated with crud?), misaligned, or blocked by debris.

But I still think this is a matter of the the signals at each DIMM socket being slightly different and the G.Skill memory being marginal, as would be expected from a company that does only lax testing.
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Old 05-19-2012, 08:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrymoencurly View Post
Two problems:

1. Sometimes by substituting memory from the same batch, you get more memory with similar defects, either because equally bad RAM chips were used or because the SPD information isn't quite right for the chips.

2. G.Skill, like most retail brands of memory, is usually made from unbranded chips that weren't tested very thoroughly by the module company, and G.Skill is one of the many companies that tests only with PCs, rather than with the very expensive machines that chip makers use. It's best to avoid modules whose chip manufacturer's logo or part number can't can't easily be read. IOW stick with Samsung or no-heatsink Crucial modules.
This is hitting the nail on the head. I've always viewed most G-skill ram to be basically value Ram. You get what you pay for.

You could have a memory controller that doesn't like that particular Ram as well. AMD in the past has been known for being picky and so are the motherboards for AMD processors.

Here's a good read. http://gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=6486

EDIT:

ALSO....
Quote:
DDR3 1800(O.C.) support
The motherboard supports DDR3 memory that features data transfer rates of 1800+(O.C.)/1600(O.C.)/1333/1066/800 MHz to meet the higher bandwidth requirements of the latest operation system, 3D graphics, multimedia, and Internet applications. The dual-channel DDR3 architecture doubles the bandwidth of your system memory to boost system performance, eliminating bottlenecks with peak bandwidths of up to 25.6 GB/s. Furthermore, the supply voltage for the memory is reduced from 1.8 V for DDR2 to just 1.5 V for DDR3. This voltage reduction limits the power consumption and heat generation of DDR3 which makes it an ideal memory solution.
That's from the mobo website. http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A785TDM_EVO/ Could very well be just an under-volt problem.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:08 PM   #8
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I've always viewed most G-skill ram to be basically value Ram. You get what you pay for.
G.Skill is the shizz right now. They have all the bases covered, from value to performance. Not very many other brands can offer more...or better, regardless of the price.
I think the stooges guy is all wet.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:12 PM   #9
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I was wondering where that came from as well.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:24 PM   #10
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G.Skill is the shizz right now. They have all the bases covered, from value to performance. Not very many other brands can offer more...or better, regardless of the price.
I think the stooges guy is all wet.
Well, you have presented a huge amount of evidence to prove me wrong, and you don't sound like you're shilling for G.Skill.

Here's a Aphnetworks' review of G.Skill RipjawsX PC17000 (2133 MHz) RAM:

http://aphnetworks.com/reviews/g_ski...8gbxld_2x4gb/2

Notice the chips it's made with, Hynix H5TQ2G83BFR-H9C:



Here's what Hynix says about the real speed of these chips:



IOW G. Skill made their PC17000 RAM from PC10666 chips overclocked by 60%. But you're right that not many other companies offer better quality because most have the same low standards (they test only with PCs, not million-dollar analyzers) and use overclocked or mystery brand chips. If you want to avoid such memory, the only sure way is by choosing Samsung or no-heatsink Crucial.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:36 PM   #11
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If you want to avoid such memory, the only sure way is by choosing Samsung or no-heatsink Crucial.
Crucial has repeatedly produced, over multiple generations of ram mind you, ram with the shortest lifespan ever. Yeah, they overclock great, but they live only as long as a housefly.
Many different brands of ram OC almost as well and live long healthy lives. I'll spend my dough on the other brands, even though you say they're inferior.
http://hwbot.org/forum/showpost.php?...94&postcount=1
The professional OC'ers seem to prefer it also. It holds many WR's currently.
How many are held by Samsung or Crucial again?
That's what I thought.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:43 PM   #12
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G.SKILL has some high quality, high performance memory in store for you.
This is from the end of the review he posted the pic from so apparently the only one with his opinion is him.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:56 PM   #13
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BTW, Crucial uses primarily Micron chips in their ram, so are you saying that Samsung and Micron ram are the one's to have?, or just Samsung and Micron that has the Crucial name on it. Not saying that you're pimping the Crucial brand, but that's what it looks like.
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrymoencurly
If you want to avoid such memory, the only sure way is by choosing Samsung or no-heatsink Crucial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Scott View Post
Crucial has repeatedly produced, over multiple generations of ram mind you, ram with the shortest lifespan ever. Yeah, they overclock great, but they live only as long as a housefly.
Many different brands of ram OC almost as well and live long healthy lives. I'll spend my dough on the other brands, even though you say they're inferior.
http://hwbot.org/forum/showpost.php?...94&postcount=1
The professional OC'ers seem to prefer it also. It holds many WR's currently.
How many are held by Samsung or Crucial again?
That's what I thought.
I said "no-heatsink Crucial" because their heatsinked modules have had high failure rates. So your objection to my recommendation is invalid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Scott View Post
BTW, Crucial uses primarily Micron chips in their ram, so are you saying that Samsung and Micron ram are the one's to have?, or just Samsung and Micron that has the Crucial name on it. Not saying that you're pimping the Crucial brand, but that's what it looks like.
I said buy modules made only from prime quality chips, meaning chips easily identifiable by chip manufacturer and chip part number, but the only way to always get such chips on the retail market is by choosing Samsung or no-heatsink Crucial modules. Otherwise the module brand doesn't matter much (but I might avoid any with printed-on termination resistors).

On a purely factual matter about G.Skill Ripjaws, do you deny that the ones shown in the Alphnetworks review were made with overclocked chips? And why should it be OK for companies to sell modules that way?

Quote:
G.SKILL has some high quality, high performance memory in store for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmcmillan
This is from the end of the review he posted the pic from so apparently the only one with his opinion is him.
The reviewer seemed to care more about speed than reliability, and there's no indication those Ripjaws were tested thoroughly for errors, that is, with something much better than a PC and MemTest86/86+, like the kinds of machines that the chip makers use.

Last edited by larrymoencurly; 05-22-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:06 PM   #15
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How about real world experience I have used GSkill ram for 4 years and I haven't had a problem with any of it and the people I have seen that did get a set that was bad GSkill looked after them quickly with no hassle.I fail to see how using those "machines" you talk about are increasing reliability or quality.I haven't seen too many threads on here or elsewhere about bad batches or reliability problems any more than the ones you mention.I think your reasoning is flawed but you have your opinion and that's what it is as you have no proof other than the labelling of those chips as overclocked and does anyone care besides you if they do those speeds and do it well enough to put a warranty behind it.I doubt you can produce any proof that these have any higher failure rate than Samsung or Crucial.I think you are too hung up on your machines and not real world testing.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:49 PM   #16
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I find this to be a rather interesting and yet frivolous discussion. Interesting from a technical point of view because I enjoy reading all of the manufacture white papers and specifications. Frivolous because from a practical point of view all that matters is that the memory modules perform as advertised.

So let's start with the technical side. GSkill uses one of the most respected brands of memory in their products, Hynix. While Samsung is the market leader, Hynix is firmly in second place. Hynix memory modules are thoroughly tested using the most advanced systems and techniques available. All H5TQ2G83BFR modules, regardless of speed rating, are identical modules that come off of the same manufacturing line. They simply went down different speed bin testing lanes for certification.

The notion that most memory sticks come with no-name modules that have not be properly tested is utter nonsense. 94% of the modules sold each year come from the top 5 manufacturers. Testing is rigorous and much more stringent than published industry standards.

On a practical level - who cares? We are overclockers. If the memory works exactly as advertised and can overclock to even higher speeds we are happy. Bin markings do not reflect the highest stable operating speed. Over the years I have used memory from a wide range of brands. Those brands used modules from Samsung, Hynix, Micron, Elpida, Nanya, and others that were binned for lower speeds than the ram stick. It didn't impact reliability or service life. All that mattered is that they were able to achieve my OC goals. My advice is to do your research and buy whatever brand gets you to your target OC.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:59 PM   #17
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To the OP, it wouldn't be the first time that 2 sets of ram or 2 sticks out of 2 different sets of ram are bad.

As mentioned earlier, it absolutely could be the mobo delivering wrong voltages, or just not liking the RAM or the RAM at the timings/speed/voltages it is running at.

Did you try playing with the Frequency/timing/voltages?
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:28 AM   #18
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The 1 stick seemed to work fine for multiple days, gaming load, etc...

I manually tried setting the voltage and all timings are within factory spec. Nothing on this pc is overclocked at the moment.

Doing further testing with both sticks in completely new slots.
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Old 05-23-2012, 05:03 PM   #19
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How about real world experience I have used GSkill ram for 4 years and I haven't had a problem with any of it and the people I have seen that did get a set that was bad GSkill looked after them quickly with no hassle. I fail to see how using those "machines" you talk about are increasing reliability or quality. I haven't seen too many threads on here or elsewhere about bad batches or reliability problems any more than the ones you mention. I think your reasoning is flawed but you have your opinion and that's what it is as you have no proof other than the labelling of those chips as overclocked and does anyone care besides you if they do those speeds and do it well enough to put a warranty behind it. I doubt you can produce any proof that these have any higher failure rate than Samsung or Crucial. I think you are too hung up on your machines and not real world testing.
Sure, if the real world experience involves a lot of RAM modules over long periods. I'm not expecting anything on the scale of Google's RAM tests, but I don't want the equivalent of regular driving around town to be considered more "real world" than a marathon run on an auto maker's test track. Also would you trust a module company that would knowingly sell modules that showed 2 errors during testing? (lifetime warranted, of course)

Yes, I offered no undeniable proof, except that G.Skill uses overclocked chips, but what undeniable proof have you offered? I just don't like the idea of products containing components run beyond specs or with factory second chips, especially when there's no error correction.

Explain how my reasoning is flawed. I rated memory as bad when it failed at its stock settings in at least one good computer when the interior temperature near the RAM was 45-50 Celcius (well below the 70-95C maximum rating), and I didn't count failures that occurred during overclocking. The failures were discovered by MemTest86 3.x or Gold Memory 5.07 (MemTest86+ and Gold Memory 6.92 never found anything with memory that passed the long boot test). IOW my testing was pretty lax, compared to what Crucial, Samsung, and sometimes Kingston do with their expensive testing machines. And why do you think those machines offer no benefits over PC-based testing machines when the chip makers do?

Additional Comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josie Wales View Post
The notion that most memory sticks come with no-name modules that have not be properly tested is utter nonsense. 94% of the modules sold each year come from the top 5 manufacturers. Testing is rigorous and much more stringent than published industry standards.
Testing is so rigorous that virtually all the chips shipped from the factory marked with part numbers or logos are good. But because yield is something like 90% per wafer or batch of packaged chips, what happens to the other 10% or to wafers that are shipped uncut? They end up in a lot of retail modules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josie Wales View Post
On a practical level - who cares? We are overclockers. If the memory works exactly as advertised and can overclock to even higher speeds we are happy. Bin markings do not reflect the highest stable operating speed.
But modules made with prime chips and rated no faster than those chips seem to overclock better than their funny finned cousins.

Last edited by larrymoencurly; 05-23-2012 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 05-23-2012, 06:41 PM   #20
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Explain how my reasoning is flawed.
Your basic reasoning is not flawed. You want your memory specs to exactly match your expectations. There is nothing wrong with that. Beyond that I feel you are making a lot of assumptions and over-thinking a simple product purchasing decision.

Last edited by Josie Wales; 05-23-2012 at 07:26 PM.
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