EXTREME Overclocking Forums
Home | Reviews | Forums | Downloads | RealTime Pricing Engine | Folding Stats Contact Us


Go Back   EXTREME Overclocking Forums > General CPU Cooling > Phase Change, Dry Ice, LN2, Other Crazy Stuff

Welcome Guest Visitor! Please Register, It's Free and Fun To Participate!
The EXTREME Overclocking Forums are a place for people to learn how to overclock and tweak their PC's components like the CPU, memory (RAM), or video card in order to gain the maximum performance out of their system. There are lots of discussions about new processors, graphics cards, cooling products, power supplies, cases, and so much more!

You are currently viewing our boards as a "guest" which gives you limited access to view most discussions. You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

After you have registered and read the forum rules, you can check out the FAQ for more information on using the forum. We hope you enjoy your stay here!

Note To Spammers: We do not allow unsolicited advertising! Spam is usually reported & deleted within minutes of it being posted, so don't waste your time (or ours)!


Please Register to Post a Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-22-2011, 01:23 AM   #1
Scilya
Running System Stock
Regular Member
 
Posts: 35
Last Seen: 02-22-2012
iTrader: 0 / 0%
help with temperature reading?

hey guys, i just installed my phase change unit and am running it for the first time. but i have noticed something odd
the temp sensor inside the evap head says its at -46.8 and the AI suite 2 claims the cpu is at -15

now running prime 95 as expected the evap temp went down just holding arround 41 right now while AI suite claims my cpu is at -7 so does speedfan
now i am wondering if this is simply because of the position of the thermal diode or perhaps there is not full contact between the evap and the cpu (alltho i dont see how this could be the case)

system specs are
Phenom II X4 975
Crosshair V Formula
Corsair Dominator 1600Mhz 8-8-8-24
HD4870X2
1000W modular psu from OZC
United Kingdom  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-22-2011, 05:58 PM   #2
[GF]Duke
Supreme Ferengi
[GF]Duke's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,042
Last Seen: 08-19-2015
Age: 61
From: Massachusetts
iTrader: 3 / 100%
You could have a bad mount, but probably not. The temperature at the phase head and the temperatue of the cpu will always be different. Running prime will definately heat up the cpu and there will be a big differecne in temp between the head and the cpu. It's under load. Try re-seating the phase and see if it persists. if it does then you know thats what you have to work with.
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-22-2011, 10:55 PM   #3
Drewmeister
The Need 2 Freeze
Drewmeister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,455
Last Seen: 07-21-2017
Age: 52
From: Phobos Lab
iTrader: 22 / 96%
Just as Duke mentioned.. the delta t can be quite high under heavy load. At cpu idle it can be very low.. within 1-2c difference. The sub 0c temp reporting on these mobo's are notorious for being inaccurate. You really just have to go by stability.

What oc are you at? What temp does the bios report?

You can check the mount by following this procedure. With the cpu at "stock settings" I boot into the bios with the phase off and monitor temps for 1min or till cpu reaches 60-70c. It will take at least a couple minutes to heat the 300+ grams of copper so don't worry. My 965BE takes 1.5min to reach 60c. This will help you spot a bad mount and will allow the TIM to flowout some from the heat. Re torque nuts while TIM is warm. It's good to go after this.
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-23-2011, 02:56 AM   #4
Scilya
Running System Stock
Regular Member
 
Posts: 35
Last Seen: 02-22-2012
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Thx for the replys guys I took the evap off and it was a fine seal some moisture in the neoprene cover surrounding the cap
But not much, I added a bit more insulation cleaned the old thermal paste off and re applied and attached again. The temp reader stays the same so out of calibration or just the diode placement it is what it. Not worried about the temps I was just wondering it is working great however. Currently stress testing in my overclocking session
United Kingdom  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-23-2011, 07:09 PM   #5
[GF]Duke
Supreme Ferengi
[GF]Duke's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1,042
Last Seen: 08-19-2015
Age: 61
From: Massachusetts
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Very true Drew. Stability i what you're after anyways. I use the temp readings as more of a guideline rather than acurate temp readings. Acurate or not i know about where my cpu will crash from being to hot. Especially when doing Super pi 32 or WPrime 1024.
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-23-2011, 07:23 PM   #6
Nagoshi
Canuck Chicken Chaser
Nagoshi's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 10,431
Last Seen: Today
Age: 27
From: Drummondville QC
iTrader: 20 / 100%
What phase unit is it? Custom built? CryoZ?
Canada  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-23-2011, 10:23 PM   #7
Drewmeister
The Need 2 Freeze
Drewmeister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,455
Last Seen: 07-21-2017
Age: 52
From: Phobos Lab
iTrader: 22 / 96%
He has one of those sweet LittleDevil cases with integrated phase unit. It's very well built and has a 1/3hp Danfoss Nf11f and quality evap. If I'm not mistaken I believe he tuned those for 280w. It won't even break a sweat on a PII X4.

Scilya: My Gigabyte 890FXA-UD5 can't report negative cpu core temps while in windows but I was able to get a cpu temp using AOD. It was TMPIN 2 or 3. Maybe check that out.

Watch that condensation.. it only takes one drop to kill your hardware. Normally the mobo dies.. it can drip down onto the back of the video card too. Make sure the clamshell is sealed airtight to the insulation on the mobo as well as the insulation on the evap line. I would put a folded paper towel or napkin on the video card for now just to be safe. Creating extra airflow around the socket will help control/evaporate condensation.. especially when at cpu idle for extended lengths of time.

Let us know how the oc goes.

Good Luck!
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-24-2011, 01:37 AM   #8
Scilya
Running System Stock
Regular Member
 
Posts: 35
Last Seen: 02-22-2012
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Yeah it's a LD unit and it is super sweet I know the temps
Not accurate looks like it's right at at the back of the socket so it gets warmed up by the CPU. Got even more insulation on now than
In the YouTube vid I did when I re seated it the outer day. Got the side
Of the case off and I keep
Checking for moisture so far it's great, I don't keep it at idle load if I can help it (stock anyway) as for my oc'ing I'll make a YouTube vid in a day or so just on my
iPhone now as I'm running prime95 now for the past 13mins and alls fine at 4.7Ghz
United Kingdom  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-24-2011, 04:27 AM   #9
Scilya
Running System Stock
Regular Member
 
Posts: 35
Last Seen: 02-22-2012
iTrader: 0 / 0%
ok so just finnished my overclocking fun
this is my stable 24/7 overclock at least for now may tweek it a little
@4.7Ghz
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2114026

also mooching arround the forum saw the super pi over 5Ghz thread
so i went and did that
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...1&d=1322133771


and then this is the highest overclock i can get i have tried everyway and no dice and setting changed slightly higher and blue screen, have tried several different ways low multi and high fsp, low fsb and high milti, a mixture ect but always just a tad over 5.2Ghz and thats all it can do
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2114009

any advice on getting the last one higher would be cool ^^
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	5.2Ghz.jpg
Views:	247
Size:	421.6 KB
ID:	161198  
United Kingdom  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-24-2011, 01:26 PM   #10
Drewmeister
The Need 2 Freeze
Drewmeister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,455
Last Seen: 07-21-2017
Age: 52
From: Phobos Lab
iTrader: 22 / 96%
Those are some awesome results there Scilya.
I bet you could get that pi closer to 13 flat with more bus, nb and tighter timings.

As far as cpu-z.. strictly for a validation. It looks like you already know to keep the bus, ht and nb stock. it might help to undervolt the nb a little. Run as low of voltage as possible to get the validation. Save the validation file.. then submit later. You can try down clocking cores 2,3 & 4. Run those at stock and just oc core 1. You can try this for some of the single threaded benching.. make sure to set affinity(and priority.. real time) to the strongest core. It's usually better to use core 2, 3 or 4 and leave core 1 for windows.

You can drop the evap temp a little with some cooler air. This will reduce capacity but should help with the lighter benching.
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-28-2011, 01:33 PM   #11
Scilya
Running System Stock
Regular Member
 
Posts: 35
Last Seen: 02-22-2012
iTrader: 0 / 0%
hey, just a question, well it seems like my phase unit is growing weaker right now my cpu is idle and my evap is at -39.8 not sure when it started dropping but only a fiew days ago it was holding at at least 4.4, even stress testing it stayed above 40 for a while before dipping at the higher overclocks. also the case temp seems to be higher this morning i saw it reach 40 degrees and my evap head was at 30 when stress testing on prime95 and i wasent even useing the most stressful run i was just keeping a load on the cpu, the temp of the cpu (acording to AI suite) rose to +12 and then i went blue -_-, a little concerned thats all ill keep a close eye on it. just wondering tho
United Kingdom  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-29-2011, 01:53 AM   #12
Drewmeister
The Need 2 Freeze
Drewmeister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,455
Last Seen: 07-21-2017
Age: 52
From: Phobos Lab
iTrader: 22 / 96%
I just watched your most recent video and may have noticed something wrong with the installation. It appears that you placed the backplate with closed cell foam insulation over the kneaded eraser. When you tighten the evap mounting it is just compressing all those layers of insulation material and placing very little pressure on the cpu. You had ok temps at first but overtime the insulation has compressed/shrunk and reduced the mounting pressure even more.

First things first.. get rid of the kneaded eraser underneath the backplates's foam insulation. The mounting kit should have come with some sort of nylon spacers or extra nuts to go between the backplate and mobo on each mounting screw. The height of the spacers or nuts should be maybe 2-3mm lower than the thickness of the backplate's foam insulation. If that piece of insulation is say 10mm then your spacer/nuts should be 7-8mm tall. That height difference will allow the insulation to compress and seal against the mobo. The studs will then make solid contact with the mobo via the spacers allowing max mounting pressure between the cpu and evap. You can add some kneaded eraser around the edges of the foam insulation.. maybe out 5cm from each edge.

I didn't notice any nuts on the top of the mobo either. The screw stack should be something like this from bottom up. Screw>Backplate>spacer or nuts>mobo>nut>evap hold down plate>spring>washer>thumbnut.

Address this first and we'll go from there.

Btw.. I noticed you accidentally pulled the cpu with your hsf. Lucky you didn't break or bend any pins. Always twist slightly back and forth(cw/ccw) till it's loose.. then pull it. It helps if the hs is still warm. Make sure those scrathes didn't leave high spots. You can check flatness with a new single edge razor blade and flashlight.
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-29-2011, 04:16 AM   #13
Scilya
Running System Stock
Regular Member
 
Posts: 35
Last Seen: 02-22-2012
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Hm ok so remove the kneeded eraser from the back of the MB and yes there are 4 nylon washers here
So backplate > foam backplate > washers > motherboard

And yeah the CPU was a pain 2 pins did bend and I managed to gently bend them back was lucky tho. Thx for the replys, will do that tommorow to tired from work now so gonna head to bed.
United Kingdom  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-29-2011, 11:18 PM   #14
Drewmeister
The Need 2 Freeze
Drewmeister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,455
Last Seen: 07-21-2017
Age: 52
From: Phobos Lab
iTrader: 22 / 96%
You only need to remove the eraser from underneath the foam insulation, leave some extending out approx 5cm in each direction for added protection from the cold. After you reinstall the backplate you'll press the eraser into the foam insulation to seal it.

I included some pics of how I insulated my 890FXA-UD5. I always try and use the stock backplates whenever possible. I had chilled liquid on before switching to phase and was able to use the same fasteners. They were actually the same thread as the backplate. The stock backplate mounts flush with the mobo.. then I insulate around it as pictured. In your case you'll need to install the spacers just like in the Vapochill drawing. The spacers can be nylon or just some nuts.

On the top side I have added a few nylon washers and nut to secure the studs and backplate to the mobo. I cork taped the socket area as pictured. It's not pictured but there's a final thin layer of foam insulation with a circle cut for the evap head. That final layer should be high enough to make good contact with the evap enclosure for an airtight seal but not hinder the mounting pressure.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Backplate Spacers.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	144.4 KB
ID:	161262   Click image for larger version

Name:	Insulation 890FXA-UD5 Drewmeister.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	354.4 KB
ID:	161263   Click image for larger version

Name:	Insulation 890FXA-UD5 Drewmeister 2.jpg
Views:	117
Size:	396.9 KB
ID:	161264  
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-30-2011, 05:16 AM   #15
Scilya
Running System Stock
Regular Member
 
Posts: 35
Last Seen: 02-22-2012
iTrader: 0 / 0%
ok so i spent the past 3 hours or so doing it so took the eraser off the back and put the foam back plate on and went round it with the eraser then went over it again with the foam as in the pic, used the saved eraser on the front to bump it up around the socket and put more foam on the front put a longer sleeve around the evap head so its all tight seal now, looks better and now the screws are set up better i noticed the difference there.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0132.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	368.8 KB
ID:	161266   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0133.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	210.6 KB
ID:	161267  
United Kingdom  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 11-30-2011, 11:02 PM   #16
Drewmeister
The Need 2 Freeze
Drewmeister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,455
Last Seen: 07-21-2017
Age: 52
From: Phobos Lab
iTrader: 22 / 96%
Looking good! Just make sure those seams are sealed between the foam pieces around the socket. Those little gaps are channels for air/moisture. You can squirt a little ASC or dielectric in to seal them up.

It appears you may have run out of insulation sheets. You can use one of them cheap neoprene mouse pads for the top piece. You could cut it larger to cover up all that grey eraser too if you wanted.

I would throw a napkin or small square of cardboard on the back of the video card for now just to be safe.
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 12-01-2011, 09:02 PM   #17
Scilya
Running System Stock
Regular Member
 
Posts: 35
Last Seen: 02-22-2012
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I still have some left don't want to use it all ATM gonna get water-cooling for my chipset so will re do it nice and pretty then for now it just needs to work ^^

Additional Comment:

now just wondering about the unit, right now mostly idle watching some vids and stuff, the evap temp is at -38.7 and case temp is at 37 also can hear trickling and maybe dripping something that sounds kinda like a bubble poping. now when i stress test my cpu temp goes up slowly but up, last time acording to ai suite it went to +13 and blue screened so i am wondering what to do about this

Last edited by Scilya; 12-01-2011 at 09:02 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
United Kingdom  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 12-02-2011, 01:04 AM   #18
Drewmeister
The Need 2 Freeze
Drewmeister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,455
Last Seen: 07-21-2017
Age: 52
From: Phobos Lab
iTrader: 22 / 96%
That dripping, popping or sizzling sound you hear is called liquid floodback and occurs when liquid refrigerant is returned to the compressor. That distinct sound is from the cold liquid hitting the hot oil in the crankcase. This is very bad and can cause severe damage to the compressor. A drip and pop here and there is ok, if it's continuous it will need to be addressed asap.

Liquid floodback on this particular system (those which have a "captube" or fixed orifice metering device) could be caused by one of the following conditions or a combination of them. Inadequate suction accumulator, oversized metering orifice, overcharged, low load, high head pressure.

Personally I'm not convinced the evap is making good contact with the cpu. You should never see positive cpu core temps on that cpu with this 1/3hp unit. Of course the exception if the temp reporting is inaccurate. I see you added a nut on the top side of the mobo but did you add the spacers or nuts between the backplate and mobo like I mentioned? If not then when you tighten those thumbnuts all you're doing is compressing the insulation on the backplate.

1) Insure that the evap is making good contact. Check the mount by following the procedure I explained inpost #3. Your particular cpu at stock settings should go at least 1min before reaching 60c. Note: Always enable the cpu thermal shutdown and set for lowest temp. Be prepared to shut the psu off if temps spike.

2) Insure that all fans on the phase unit are operating properly and are set to full speed.

3) Room temp can have a huge impact on the performance of the phase unit. Make sure the unit is located in an area with good ventilation. The cooler the room the better but not too cold. Keep the air inlet temp to the condenser under 30c. Best capacity will normally be around 24c. Best temp for very light loads will be at lower room temps.

Please post a cpu-z ss of cpu and memory for last strees test.
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 12-02-2011, 01:34 PM   #19
Scilya
Running System Stock
Regular Member
 
Posts: 35
Last Seen: 02-22-2012
iTrader: 0 / 0%
i added a plastic spacer on the under side, the cpu tems can be explained by the drop of the evap temp i just started it up, temps got to -44 i then started the pc, by the time it got to windows the evap was at -35 and now im just useing IE and its at 37.4 where as before it never dropped under 40 (cpu is at -13 right now) i do have the heating on, i will switch it off and when i get back from work i will get ss of stress tests. i will do the test you mentiond again.
the poping is not all the time infact while i have been typing this is hasn't done it once however when it starts dooing it it generaly does not stop. i used to work with a compressor a much bigger one it was a tempremental sh** so id like to nip any problems in the bud ^^ so to speak

this is a pic from this morning all i was doing was watching some vids and downloading some files cpu was at 1-10% this time last week it wouldent have dropped below -42 which is why im worried
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0135[1].jpg
Views:	103
Size:	311.6 KB
ID:	161291  
United Kingdom  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Old 12-02-2011, 09:52 PM   #20
Drewmeister
The Need 2 Freeze
Drewmeister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,455
Last Seen: 07-21-2017
Age: 52
From: Phobos Lab
iTrader: 22 / 96%
When you turn a phase unit on from a cold start it will reach max low end temps in a few minutes. It's normal for evap temps to rise(warmer) after the pc is booted. Once in windows temps may drop(colder) slightly as the compressor warms and head pressure rises. Once the unit is up to full steam the cpu idle evap temp will level out.

A cpu idle of -38.1c isn't bad at all for a heavily tuned 1/3hp unit. Did LD mention what it was tuned for? Is there a spec sheet? I'm pretty sure I read 280w before. The evap is probably removing more heat now due to the better mount. The stress test will confirm this. Try and run the same 4.7ghz @ 1.536v.. can you achieve the same super pi and cpu-z in post #9? Make sure to show the cpu and memory tabs. I want to see what you're running the memory and NB at.

Check the cpu idle temp in the bios too. Mine always shows within 2-5c of the evap temp.
United States  Offline
    Register to Reply to This Post
Sponsored Links:
Please Register to Post a Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:45 PM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, EXTREME Overclocking