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Old 04-07-2013, 09:10 AM   #1
ShrimpBrime
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New LN2 Pot Rev. v3.0/3.1 Soon v3.2 updated 4/13/13

I'm working on a new LN2 pot hoping for some better results than I had before with previous LN2/DICE pots.

The Pots I've created before are great for DICE but don't seem to hold a temp long enough for LN2 and that forces me to keep filling the pot. So this time around I wanted a little more mass and some more surface area for the LN2 to dissipate the heat into.

The Pot is 2 inches in diameter and 8 and 1/4" long. The top tube is from Brass handrail and is half of Rev 2.0 LN2 pot. Rev 3.1 will have likely a copper tube instead.

Most of the pictures are at Classic Platforms. http://classicplatforms.com/forum/vi...hp?f=73&t=8041

But here's a couple for EOCF eye candies. I hope to continue with this project, right now currently working on Rev 3.1.



Added Vid of how I removed the copper slug from the heat sink.
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Last edited by ShrimpBrime; 04-13-2013 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:51 PM   #2
Drewmeister
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Looks like it will freeze the **** out something very nicely!

That's very ingenious how you made use of the copper slug and brass sleeves. For your next revision I wonder if you could double up two of those slugs and have the top half exposed inside the tube for extra mass and surface area. Maybe cut vertical notches.. kind of like thick fins.

I'm assuming the mounting will be at the top on this one? What are you going to make it out of?

Looking forward to the testing!
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:18 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Drewmeister View Post
Looks like it will freeze the **** out something very nicely!

That's very ingenious how you made use of the copper slug and brass sleeves. For your next revision I wonder if you could double up two of those slugs and have the top half exposed inside the tube for extra mass and surface area. Maybe cut vertical notches.. kind of like thick fins.

I'm assuming the mounting will be at the top on this one? What are you going to make it out of?

Looking forward to the testing!
I thought about doubling up the slugs. But I'm running out of heat sinks for that.... And the cuts to make fins is an awesome idea. I was gonna drill a hole down the center of the slug, but I didn't want to take away the amount of material there. When there is more, it holds heat/cold longer.

Mounting is optional. I probably won't mount this thing. It's got weight to it and I like to remove my Pots quickly. It makes little difference in temps, some people may disagree, but I've tried it with a store bought LN2 pot temps where identical and once frozen to the board (in a matter of seconds) the pot won't tip over or anything like that.

I will be testing soon. I was supposed to recieve LN2 Yesterday (monday) but my buddy didn't have any stops that needed it it this week. So I'll probably wait it out for the right moment.

And Drew.... I haven't forgotten about the SS unit. I kinda spent the moneys on a board and processor because I gave my brother my last one I was LN'ing on. His wife's PC basically died, so I gave him my bench stuff. I don't even have Ram for my new board.... But don't worry Drew, I ain't going anywhere. We'll get it done eventually.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:29 AM   #4
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Yes.. definitely try and keep mass as high as possible with LN2 pots. You want a good balance of mass vs surface area. With copper being so expensive it's much cheaper to just add mass vs remove. Use 35-45% silver braze rod for extremely low thermal resistance. I have some stock here if you need anything.

Mounting pressure will lower the thermal resistance between the base and IHS/die. The flatter the surfaces the less pressure needed. Maybe you just had very flat surfaces and or light heat load.

Hey.. no worries on the ss.. whenever you're ready.

Any updates on the LN2?
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:59 AM   #5
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No updates yet. NP cause I don't have everything set up yet. The 990FX Sabo board needs a good sealing firstly. So that will be all ready for SS when the time comes. But it looks like it may be a week or two at this point before I get LN2. The guy works basically the entire chicago land area, so he isn't by us all the time. Basically, when we need oxygen and order it, he'll be at the shop in a day or two. OR if he's in the area with extra LN2, I'll get a drop by from him.

Then I gotta get some more insulation to put around the Pot. They are a little smaller in diameter, So I gotta make a little trip to the hardware store.

Pot Rev 3.1 has been completed and partially insulated for a run. I had some 1" thick foam that I taped around the brass tube already.

Stay tuned for pictures of that later.

I have a Silver Morgan Dollar that I lapped years ago. I've used it many times, it may get slugged into one of these Pots. But I usually use it on liquid cooled IHS'less processors. I also have a Kilo of .999% PURE Copper plate. It's 3 x 5 x 1/2", here's a pic of that real quick. This will be on Pot Rev 3.2 most definitely.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:20 PM   #6
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OK here's a couple of pictures. Rev 3.1 has the Aluminum cased slug bottom.

The inner largest ring and outside brass tube have nothing underneath besides the Aluminum plate at the bottom, while the slug is cased with 2 Copper/Brass bushings similar to the Rev. 3.0 pot. But with this one, chilling can occur all the way down and around the copper slug with this one.

I'll be making another pot after this one also. I'll be using Copper tube on the outside, the plate of 999 pure copper for a base, so the slug may be eliminated even though I have two more of those left I think. I'll also try making some slices for extra surface area because I like that idea Drew.

EDIT almost forgot the dimensions.....

2 1/2" bottom aluminum plate encasing copper slug. The aluminum plate is 1/2" thick. The Pot total length is 8 and 1/2" long. Inner tube diameter is 1 and 7/8 inches and the space between inner slug most outer ring and inside outer inside diameter is 3/16 inches all the way to the bottom aluminum plate. The actual center copper slug is 3/4" inches in diameter. All is soldered on the inside so you may not see solder all the way around the bottom of this one. I ran out of 40/60 lead based. I choose this because the lead can move and is flexible so the contraction and expansion of the LN2 process doesn't cause cracks and leaks. At least so I'm hoping.
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Last edited by ShrimpBrime; 04-13-2013 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:56 PM   #7
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I can see in a less extreme environment the copper being beneficial in air/water cooling for the fact it conducts heat well and creates the mass that the air or water could not quickly overcome under temp spikes. However, when you are at such an extreme level of cooling, you are using your optimal weapon (LN2) to cool...copper, which then has to cool the cpu. I'm not experienced here with LN2 on a CPU so I can only speculate, but couldn't the lowest temperatures be achieved if your LN2 was sealed off to the processor itself and literally boiling on the CPU die? Any reaction from heat is near instantly transferred to the LN2, the stuff that has the lowest temperature to fight back with.

I just imagine the idea scaled larger, if you had 2 pounds of copper to "dampen" the heat flow, you have more planes of thermal transfer, and more mass which has to be cooled from the top, meaning the copper begins acting as an insulation layer instead of a conduction layer, because the temperature fronts become farther away from one another (hot<----->cold). It seems mass is more prevalent as the cooling method goes down in ability, I.E. most mass is used in air cooling. Less copper is used in water cooling, and using freezing liquid, well--it (copper) would progressively become thinner using those analogies. So that basic theory leads to this question, why not more LN2 closer to the CPU that you are trying to cool, instead of more metal to cool and less LN2?

I would think if you merely wanted a seal in LN2, a super thin sheet of copper (or none) would permit maximum thermal conduction from two points of heat so far apart in energy difference. Mass has a use due to the type of properties the mass has, I do understand that, but no matter how good it conducts, the thicker it is, the more delay there is in getting the thermal energy closer to the source of cooling, and again the conducting material becomes an insulator from the LN2 instead of a conductor. There's math behind this that's for sure, but I think it would predict less copper the colder the liquid became in a general theory so long as the supply of liquid was continuous. I do understand water and LN2 will have much different physical characteristics upon what they touch, different specific heat, etc. Hence my speculation on this.

What's your take?

EDIT: DOH! This was one of those spoke too soon posts. After I thought about it, the maximum cooling to the CPU would indeed occur with no copper; presumably, but due to bubbling at the temperature conduction front, the temperature extremes would also increase. I suppose you're not looking for that, but rather a low temperature spread-extreme value. Stability within a small temperature range, allowing you to overclock under a more controlled environment...

Anyways, there must be a *golden* amount of copper to actually use, a certain thickness, for the amount of nitrogen and container size. That would be an interesting experiment. Start thick, and take measurements at thinner and thinner copper levels to see the effect on temperature.

Last edited by iSeven; 04-15-2013 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:57 PM   #8
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Actually the copper is a great conductor of heat/cold. Either that or Silver, Gold or Diamonds...... So the copper needs to be there.

The only draw back is that the heat/cold dissipation between the copper brass and lead solder won't be that great. That I know. I'm banking on the brass to hold -150c for a longer period and perhaps keep the copper slug near -100c for example, and ultimately use less LN2.

I could however design a POT that exposes the core to LN2. The only problem I have with that is the different core sizes on all the Cpu's out there. It would be a waste of time to design something like that.

you'll never stop LN2 from boiling. We have atmosphere. Nothing I can do about it unless I can get Ambients to the same temps as rock bottom as LN2 gets to. It'll always simmer to some extent.

My brother and I often imagined a LN2 pot that was fed by IV. This is not an easy task to accomplish. I'd need a pressurized tank on LN2 or gravity feed from a dewar. The first option is expensive considering the particular Dewar that I have (21 L) is like 600$ new and a pressurized tank half the size would probably be double the price. (not really sure, but that's how these containers price usually.... very expensive) So a gravity fed solution IMO would be the way to go. I'd have to find a petcock that will work near -200c and a line that won't break. If it bends a little while so cold, no good.

We've also imagined using LN2 in a closed loop system much like WC. again price for something like this and a pump that can handle pushing LN2 vs your average daily coolant may be hard to come by. In other words I don't believe I can convert an SS unit for something like this. Not sure, but I bet Drew would have some insite there.

But other than that, I'm not hoping for WRs or anything special in that matter. Just having some fun.
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Old 05-04-2013, 09:26 PM   #9
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Hey Shrimp.. the new pots look great. Did you get a chance to test them?

Negative on using a SS to pump the Ln2. You'd need one of those expensive cryo pumps or maybe experiment with a Procon brass pumps.

The gravity feed sounds like a good idea. Yes there are valves and flex lines that can handle the temps. You could then meter the exact amount of LN2 for max low end core temps. Instead of feeding a pot.. maybe feed a small evap like chamber on the cpu. The chamber would have an inlet and outlet. The outlet would just drain un-evaporated LN2 to a small thermos/dewar.. then just pour back in main dewar after bench run.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:00 PM   #10
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Not a chance yet Drew. Been super busy. Got some nice weather, doing yard work, just got a new couch in I had to go out and get yesterday and dispose of the old one.... the list just keeps going...

I like your input on the Grav feed. W/e sits on the Cpu doesn't have to be special. It just needs to be able to let LN2 flow through at a restricted pace.

In the spare time, I've De-lidded another Cpu, FX-6100. It took me all of under 2 minutes to actually de-lid it and about an hour to get it varified in working condition after a POS seagate drive decided to die on me during testing. sigh right?

So on top of waiting continuously for LN2, I've crafted yet another LN2 pot. Something of a hybrid. It's mainly meant for VGA (not that I do that ever..) but also has been crafted for Cpu use as well. If I have time, I'll give more specs on it later, but for now here's a picture of that.

It's not pretty. Just a prototype. An idea. I hope to test this some time as well. So much to do, no time and no LN2 right now either
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:06 PM   #11
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Wow, nice work Shrimp.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:32 PM   #12
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Cool stuff shrimp,

It may be benificial to try to implement a a hardcore base.

http://www.cut2sizemetals.com/copper/round/krd/


an 1 1/2" long piece of 2" bar stock drilled out in a patern and finished to a mirror shine on the cup side would be a nice mass for the bottom

Grind so 2" copper tubing fits over so your solder joint would be on the sides and would not come into play. need a lot of mass to hold temp, but keep in mind it takes more juice to bring it to temp. With high mass you also give up responcivness. depending on what bench you are running either a light base or a heavy can be an asset or a liability

Good luck, in for the results bud ........
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:43 PM   #13
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Cool stuff shrimp,

It may be benificial to try to implement a a hardcore base.

http://www.cut2sizemetals.com/copper/round/krd/


an 1 1/2" long piece of 2" bar stock drilled out in a patern and finished to a mirror shine on the cup side would be a nice mass for the bottom

Grind so 2" copper tubing fits over so your solder joint would be on the sides and would not come into play. need a lot of mass to hold temp, but keep in mind it takes more juice to bring it to temp. With high mass you also give up responcivness. depending on what bench you are running either a light base or a heavy can be an asset or a liability

Good luck, in for the results bud ........
This may be a while yet fellas before I can test this stuff. I have the wrong board for LN2.... So I'm keeping an eye out for an alternative.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:57 PM   #14
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what are you freezing , your 3770K?

gene, OCF or MVE ...
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Witchdoctor View Post
what are you freezing , your 3770K?

gene, OCF or MVE ...
Nah that stupid Asus Sabo rev 1 AMD any.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:34 PM   #16
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O

not up on AMD boards bro

Are the ROG Formulas any good cold ?
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Old 06-22-2013, 09:49 AM   #17
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No idea and I probably won't buy a 200$ mobo again to kill.....

So I'm looking for one of these.. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131795

My brother's wife has this board. She Needed it more than I do so I parted with it.

Gonna get another. It took my 955BE up to 6ghz, I was very pleased with it. No cold bug whatsoever, power delivery works fine even with FX chips. Supports anything and is in-expensive to replace.
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Old 06-22-2013, 02:20 PM   #18
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Kool, AMD any good for 3D ?
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:02 AM   #19
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Kool, AMD any good for 3D ?
Sure is! Get about the same scores with unigine bench intel or AMD. It depends.... Aquamark is better off on Intel same thing with most 3dmarks too.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:26 AM   #20
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Rock it bro. 6GHz has to be competetive for 3D
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