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Old 03-20-2017, 04:54 PM   #1
EMU
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mATX V21 with 2x200mm phobya Xtreme.

So, I gave my old mATX z77/3570k build to my nephew (new case, air cooled)... and decided to upgrade to z270. I wanted to stay with mATX, but also wanted to use both 200mm rads.

In my old build, I used a fractal arc mini r2, had one 200mm rad in front, with a 240 black ice gtx up top p/p. The case was OK for my needs, but while I had it I got a steal on ebay (frozen cpu liquidation) on a phobya 200 kit for the price of just the cpu block that I needed for my x58 sabertooth budget build.

With that acquisition, I decided that when I would rebuild my system, I would want to use both of the 200mm rads. It only makes sense. I set out looking through cases... hundreds of them to try to visualize how the system would go together. I narrowed my choices down to a few... thermaltake was 3 of them, with the core x2, core x31 and core v21. I also had really liked the aerocool DS cube, and the xpredator cube, but they weren't really available anymore, and the ones I could find were a little too steep. I'm trying to do this build on a low budget, as most of my builds have been.

Micro center had one x2 on a clearance sale for $40. It was sure to be mine, but the day beforeI was going to go pick it up, it had sold. So it was really between the x31 and the v21. I had tried to contact thermaltake for some dimensions, to see if I could squeeze the rad in the roof, but got no replies after a few months. I examined many builds of the v21, judging the dimensions as best I could, and decided to pull the pin after I nabbed a new 6700k on ebay with a low ball best offer that was accepted.

So, I got the case this morning... and gave it a once over before leaving for work. It sat on a truck for 3 days less than a mile from me because newegg shipped ground instead of home delivery, that's a different story, but if I got it on Saturday, I would have more pics.

The first thing that I checked was whether a 180mm fan could mount on the top... which no reviews or documentation mentioned compatability, only compatibility for 120/140 fans. The good news is that it fits and can mount natively in two locations. The bad news is that I need to move it about 20mm away from the rear of the case to install an additional fan there. Most people wouldn't care, but I want it to balance airflow.

So, my plan is to have the window on the left side of the case near the cpu, rad on top as exhaust, another rad in front as intake, and two 120 fans as intake on the right side of the case cooling the gpu. For reservoir I wool use a primochill ctr d5 enabled sff model which is about 205mm with pump installed, and will squeeze that in the front left of the case behind the front rad.

I feel that this build should come together nicely... just have to decide what mobo to get. Anyone Jane any experience with the gigabyte z20mx gaming or asrock z270m extreme4? Those are the two boards that I'm leaning towards, more towards the asrock, it's features look better, but it's so ugly!

I attached a few pics that I took just to figure out how things would fit. The rad cannot mount natively to the fan brackets. Rad is 201mm, and the max support is 180mm unless I either modify the case (slot front and rear) to mount the bracket about 22mm wider. I could either make my own bracket, or do what I am planning to do which is space the radiator 25mm lower with either the fan in picture, or a 180x20mm phobya shroud.

The rad is 45mm thick, plus about 3mm for fan mounting plate x2, Silverstone ap-182 is 32mm, phobya fan 25mm... this means that the minimum height of the 200 rad as it would be mounted to the brackets would be 103-108mm whether I use the shroud or the fan. I haven't taken any measurements yet, but judging by this image from Baz'so little gene build on OCN, his stack is 86mm from mounting rails, so my fan would be about 20mm closer to the mobo than his. It will clear the video card... but will leave little room to work. By my estimations, I will have about 95-100mm off the mobo tray. I spotless be able to work with that, and depending how I run the tubing, I may be able to release and tilt the top radiator if I need to get under it to swap an m.2 drive.


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Last edited by EMU; 03-23-2017 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:25 PM   #2
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Looking forward to this build. I love tiny PC's that can kick the sh*t out of big ones =D That being said, I've got an mATX as well, went from the ASUS GENE to the Z270G. Like them both, only issues I have with the Z270G is that sometimes it doesn't want to boot, but I think I've got a loose connection somewhere. I've been wanted to move to an mATX 6 core setup, but I'm waiting to see how Intel reacts to Ryzen first lol.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:36 PM   #3
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My htpc gives my x58 xeon a run for its money in low threaded apps. If it was a K... then it would be even more serious.

I was also looking at the 270g... still have that in mind as an option, but don't like the m.2 location, and I don't like the chipset heatsink design. Plus, it's a decent price jump. Which in my opinion is justified for once, since it includes WiFi. Asrock has the m.2 E slot, but no card or antenna, so that's about $35 right there bringing it to $185 which is close enough to see the $10 difference for better vrm, and the $5 addition of usb 3.1 g2 front panel... visually, the gigabyte would be perfect for the build... especially since I have the gigabyte 1060 that would kind of match, and going to use orange tubing with orange accents on the reservoir... with white fittings.

What case are you running your z270g in?

I was thinking about holding off and going with ryzen... but, by the looks of things there won't be any good matx or itx boards released soon, and I might as well get the build under way. This is more of a gaming build, and I could really have done it with air, but since I have the cooling hardware, might as well use it and have fun with the project.

I was thinking about going with hard tubing, but then I would need new fittings, which I don't can't justify right now.

Last edited by EMU; 03-20-2017 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:19 PM   #4
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Pics of progress...

I had wanted to run my loop pump>top rad>front rad>cpu>res... but the gods of watercooling had a different idea.

The reservoir inlet would be blocked by my ap182, and I had a couple options. First, cut down the reservoir. Second, modify the radiator mounting brackets on top to remove the 20mm shroud I used to space and mount the rad. Or, what I did... use the perfectly aligned radiator port to go directly into my reservoir.

Ideally, I would prefer my top radiator as the first radiator behind the heat load to exhaust that heat, then go through the front radiator to cool with fresh air, then hit the heat... this would result in slightly lower case Temps than the front radiator getting hit first. Since I will be air cooling my video card, that is a slight concern, but really would be marginal.

This is not the tubing that I am using... just wanted to get something on there to show loop run.

You can see how tight the clearance is been the fan and where the video card is installed.

I cut down some screws for the top rad mount, and drilled some holes in the brackets for the front screws.

Coming together well so far.

I'm either going to need a stubby screwdriver, or remove the top radiator to install the mobo.

I'm a little underwhelmed with the QC at primochill. My reservoir has poor cuts on both sides... I would cut down further, but now that would effect the height as it is hard lined to the radiator. If I cut it down, I would need to cut exactly 10mm off (5mm each side).
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:27 PM   #5
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More pics

Ran into complications with the IO panel. I want it on top, since pc will be on floor. Plus, I don't like the curves top/ bottom...

This only happens when bracket is in the 180mm slot. Cut down bracket, and made slot in plastic of IO. Prefect fit now.
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:49 PM   #6
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Man, looking good!!

I put mine in the Air 240 for Corsair as I wanted a window, feel free to check it out here


http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...d.php?t=374772


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Old 03-21-2017, 03:59 PM   #7
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Nice build. I had wanted to get that case when it released. But wouldn't fit my 200 radiator.

The v21 will have it's window on the side by the cpu... won't be able to see much, but it makes most sense in that location. Especially since I need the mesh on top for rad, and gpu side for intake.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:38 PM   #8
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Thanks man and yeah, the 240 is a good case as long as you stick with an AIO cooler lol, anything custom becomes a very tight fit quickly.
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:28 PM   #9
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I can understand the tight fit. I felt that way with fractal arc mini. The top rad hung over the board so much that it made it difficult to work in. Had to pull rad to even swap memory.

With my hw labs gtx, I couldn't fit it to the roof, needed to space it out with fans, although I wanted to run push pull anyway due to fun density.

Last edited by EMU; 03-23-2017 at 04:35 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:35 PM   #10
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Some work on the system.

Mobo arrived today.

Installed psu. Which meant removing the bottom panel, therefore unbolting the reservoir/pump mount from it.

I ran some of the cables, but haven't tied any up yet.

Got mobo installed, test fit the video card, and as I expected it is a really tight fit. The planning was perfect, 1mm less space, and it would be no go.

Installed intel cooler from my 3570k that was never used to give it a test with my i3 6100 to test the system, and we're in bios. My 6700k hasn't arrived yet, haven't even received notification of shipment. Sent seller message to see what's up.
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Last edited by EMU; 03-23-2017 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:21 PM   #11
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Next part of the project, decided to make separate post since this is a tangent.

By default, you can mount 2 fans on the side of the case with the rail system. There is enough space to mount 3, but would require some work to get there.

You can see in the pics, that none of the fan holes would line up, so all would need to be drilled precisely. The fan closest to the rear will need to have it's frame modified to sit flush against the side rail mechanism and would need to be installed and removed separately whenever the rails would need removal.

After a few minutes of thinking... I started wondering if I would move the fans down towards the mobo tray to have better airflow to the gpu...

Then I started thinking about installing a plate to direct the air better into the gpu heatsink. And using exhaust fans at the top of the case to extract the warm gpu air without it going through the radiator. Essentially make the gpu compartmentalized in a sense.

The gpu exhaust fans at the top of the case would need to be 92mm fans maximum. There is about 100mm space between the radiator mounting rail and the side/top support on the chassis. I could fit 3, and they would need to be 20mm maximum height which is the same as the shroud spacing the radiator. The final picture represents an 80mm fan in the location for the exhaust.

The fans that I would want to get are 25mm thick, which would require the radiator to drop 5mm. I could use the phobya 180mm fan and cut out the hub of the fan and use it as a spacer instead of the shroud.

I am planning to use the white arctic 120mm fans that I have in picture which have daisy chaining capabilities, so a fan hub would not be required. Since I'm not pushing through a radiator, I don't need the additional static pressure that the cougar fan has, and it isn't pwm (I have 4 from my push pull rad in the old build). The fan header on the motherboard would be a pump header, so it provides extra amperage over a standard header, and I could run all 6 fans (3x 120 + 3x92) off of the same header for speed control.

So now I need to decide whether I want to undertake this mod to have marginal gains of any...
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Last edited by EMU; 03-23-2017 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:47 PM   #12
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I finished the loop, quick leak test with my 12v pump... while testing I noticed a noticeable ticking noise from my pump.. drained the loop, loosened the pump retention collar, reseated it... tightened it up, and refilled the loop. Noise was almost gone, but still there a bit. I throttled it up and down, and it gradually went away. Im assuming that it was an air bubble, but I thought it could have been the impeller hitting the pump top.

Temps are around 53c max load in the latest Prime on my 6100, with my fans all on their lowest settings so its basically silent. Waiting for a 7700k to come, so I decided to test the memory settings out.

2x8gb G.Skill 3000 15,16,16,35 2t 1.35v is the XMP setting. By the code on the sticks, I believe them to be Spektek/Micron based. I got them for a good price a while back, think November for under $80 at Newegg. I had previously purchased an Asrock Z170M Extreme4 to overclock this 6100 with, which had a combo for G.Skill 3000 15,15,15,35 memory that was Samsung based. The board ended up being DOA, and I had to send back the mobo/memory since it was a combo. That memory cost $54 in the combo, and the mobo was $109. It was a steal... too bad it didnt work

So I have been overclocking this memory... these are my findings
3000 14,15,15,35 1t
3200 15,16,16,35 1t
3333 16,17,17,36 1t
3466 17,18,18,39 1t
3600 19,20,20,43 2t (boots but not stable)

The Z270M Extreme4 with the latest bios has a max vdimm of 1.4v, and a max VCCIO of 1.25v, max VCCSA of 1.3v. My memory doesnt seem to scale much with voltage, I raised it to test each divider, but found that I could lower the vdimm back to about 1.35v with no loss of stability. I think 3600 may be more limited by the VCCIO than the memory.

I couldnt boot at 3333 without 1.2 VCCIO, and couldnt boot at 3466 without 1.25 set in bios. I read 1.23 VCCIO in HWmonitor when set to 1.25v, so it looks like it undervolts a bit. VCCSA looks like it overvolts, so it gets about 1.27v when set to 1.25v. I am going to try lowering it after I test stable at 3466/1.35vdimm. Just to see if I lose stability by going down to 1.2VCCSA. VCCIO needs to be where it is.. wish I had a little more just to see if 3600 was a mem controller limit or memory limit.

When I first started the system, I set XMP, and it failed to post. The 6100 BCLK is hard locked, changing it to anything but auto or 100 results in a failed boot. The XMP attempts 102.3 bclk with the 2933 memory divider to make the 3000.

Thats about all that I have to update... will try to add a pic of the semi finished build. I added 2 fans to the GPU side, but still want to make some modifications to the case to lower them and add the exhausts on the top.
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