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Old 07-02-2010, 11:53 PM   #41
ShrimpBrime
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I'd be willing to bet that IF there where actually air bubbles or pockets of air, the Cpu would show a temp problem and then a re-seat would be a good idea.

The Bracket on a stock HSF for example gets the pressure pretty good. And in time the Paste becomes an adhesive, and actually works a little better after a burn in period.

But mainly the TIM is useful for filling the bowl shaped IHS plates and deep scratches on the Cooler or IHS plate.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:17 PM   #42
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^^ I am with Shrimp on this one. Plus I am sure a few nanobubbles is much less of a deal than having 1/4 of the area of you IHS not making good contact (aka big bubbles) with the heatsink. The best test is actual practical data with temperature record and not an acrylic plastic being pushed with bare hands (unevenly) into the CPU. I've had better results with spreading the paste, not to mention spreading yourself allows you to control the amount of TIM therefore you do not put too much or too little, just the right amount.
Checking the heat sink after removing also help you get an idea of how good of an spread was before, therefore the acrylic is kind of unnecessary really.

Now, has anyone tried a thermal camera on a bare CPU and a CPU + Heatsink? now that would be interesting to see.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:13 AM   #43
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I am going to have to disagree for the most part with my colleagues Mr.Scott and ShrimpBrime on this one.

Let's address the dubious efficiency of the so called Integrated Heat Spreader or IHS. While a fine notion in theory the actual functionality of these where the even dissipation of heat is concerned is often quite the opposite. The reasons are many and the first being one we are familiar with. The are either concave or convex and often the metal the are cast from is of a varied thickness. This is not a finely forged and precision piece of metal work as some might be inclined to believe. Not only that but anyone who has de-lidded a CPU knows that the TIM (whether it be solder or paste) between the IHS and the core is often poorly applied resulting in uneven transfer between the core and IHS.

What does this mean where the spread vs X or center dot methods are concerned? Think about it for a second. In a perfect world where both the IHS and the HS base were perfectly flat and smooth and assuming there are no air bubbles spreading would work nicely. However it's not a perfect world. Let's say you were able to get a perfectly level thin spread across the IHS. Nicely done! Congratulations! Ooops, the IHS is concave and now you have a nice little gap between it and your heat sink. " "But Opty I spread it just thick enough to close the gap". Excellent but now you've reduced the efficiency of the TIM. "No Opty I never spread it THAT thick". Really do you have a special micrometer laying about? You could just place a dot or X and when pressure is applied correctly and HSF is properly snug you could rest assured the TIM has filled what needs to be filled and it's not to thick.

But Opty an IHS is a so very vital with Quad/Hexa core high TDP CPU's! Really? It transfers heat rather unevenly and there going to be hot spots. Not to mention that it matters not one bit if there is not a drop of TIM anywhere where the core is not i.e. the center of the IHS. Spreading the heat unevenly does little good. It's where the hottest point is that matters and that is directly over the core. By placing a dot in the center of the IHS and properly seating a quality sink you cover this evenly and for lack of a better term "funnel" the heat directly to the heat sink. Anyone who has correctly applied the dot method knows that the TIM will spread more than far enough to cover the entire core area.

You could have a millimeter gap on all 4 corners of the IHS and it wouldn't make a **** bit of difference if the center has proper coverage/contact.

The IHS is more useful for protecting the fragile core from damage than it is at efficient heat transfer.

Now that I've said all of that unless your shooting for that last 5Mhz to edge out the guy in the top of your class @ the BOT then it matters not one bit whether you spread or dot/X as long as you do it well.

I don't need a video to tell me that's physics are physics.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:40 AM   #44
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For the Record, my GPU's and CPU do not have IHS's, which eliminate any problems you've described with that method. I've used the dot and spread method and the differences are negligible, I'm not sure they're even measurable with conventional means.

Quote:
But Opty an IHS is a so very vital with Quad/Hexa core high TDP CPU's! Really? It transfers heat rather unevenly and there going to be hot spots.
There are cold and hot spots on normal processors and GPU's anyway. It's not limited to an IHS...

Quote:
The IHS is more useful for protecting the fragile core from damage than it is at efficient heat transfer.
That's most of the reason, however as stated, hot spots on processor die's are common, which is part of the reason for the spreader, to spread out the heat so it can be absorbed by the HS more efficiently.

Last edited by Sephiroth; 07-05-2010 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 07-05-2010, 01:05 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
For the Record, my GPU's and CPU do not have IHS's, which eliminate any problems you've described with that method. I've used the dot and spread method and the differences are negligible, I'm not sure they're even measurable with conventional means.
Right you are. The differences are negligible if either method is applied with care.


Quote:
There are cold and hot spots on normal processors and GPU's anyway. It's not limited to an IHS...
Indeed there are and adding an IHS that also will have hot and cold spots makes little headway in remedying this.


Quote:
That's most of the reason, however as stated, hot spots on processor die's are common, which is part of the reason for the spreader, to spread out the heat so it can be absorbed by the HS more efficiently.
Heat will always follow the path of least resistance. That's why heat-pipes work well and direct contact heat-pipes even better. An uneven slag of copper coated in nickel does little to help this however much the heat is "spread".
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:45 PM   #46
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Many heat sinks are uneven, so make sure that you have an even coating of tim, on the ihs is a little pointless. Don't the ihs's on cpu's have a little flex? So, if the heat sink is convex, that would affect the dissipation of heat coming from the cores.
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:48 PM   #47
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Don't the ihs's on cpu's have a little flex?
Ever de-lid an AMD processor? The IHS is like 3/32" thick. There is no flex.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:40 PM   #48
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No, I haven't delidded any processors, but thanks for the info.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:42 PM   #49
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Didn't mean to sound snarky, sorry about that.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:58 PM   #50
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Please, I take no offense. I have read the delidding threads, but no one had mentioned how the the heat spreader was. One would think, that the lid would be thinner, so that the heat would more readily dissipated by the heat sink.
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Old 07-06-2010, 02:57 AM   #51
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Interesting views I use the line method on my Quad and providing the temps are within (my) expected range I'm happy if not I remove it check what the coverage was like and reapply. Overall I suspect that most of the methods applied carefully will work for most PC's, the more extreme your overclock the more important the spread
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Old 07-06-2010, 10:52 PM   #52
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OMG

Let's not get into cooling. I have a freekin Lapped Morgan Silver Dollar here that's flatter than any IHS plate I pwn. I spread all the way across.

It is used primarily on ALL the cpu's I own (cause most are de-lidded) except for the opteron rig which is dual water blocked and the largest cpu's are dual cores (socket 940) which on these cpu's I also spread even though the TDP is so freeking low I could possibly use saliva for TIM.

Oh no my 45w cpu is over heating

I would recommend a defined amount of a pea size only pre-spread. Just like how it comes on HSF. Note the higher TDP HSF's have paste pre-applied to cover the entire IHS plate. And probably for good reason.

The low end Athlon II's for example cool main on center simply because the TDP is low.

I suppose on like 85w and below you could recommend a dot or X. BUT there's always that moronic chowder ranger that will put an X in one corner of the IHS plate or the Dot on the lower portion, burn his Cpu and blame you.

So it's always best to just recommend a thin layer full coverage.

And for the record will take less than a pea size drop in most cases AMD or Intel.

Duh? the dot goes in the middle or on the right side to get core 1 cooled better?
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Old 07-06-2010, 11:47 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post
OMG

Let's not get into cooling. I have a freekin Lapped Morgan Silver Dollar here that's flatter than any IHS plate I pwn. I spread all the way across.

It is used primarily on ALL the cpu's I own (cause most are de-lidded) except for the opteron rig which is dual water blocked and the largest cpu's are dual cores (socket 940) which on these cpu's I also spread even though the TDP is so freeking low I could possibly use saliva for TIM.

Oh no my 45w cpu is over heating

I would recommend a defined amount of a pea size only pre-spread. Just like how it comes on HSF. Note the higher TDP HSF's have paste pre-applied to cover the entire IHS plate. And probably for good reason.

The low end Athlon II's for example cool main on center simply because the TDP is low.

I suppose on like 85w and below you could recommend a dot or X. BUT there's always that moronic chowder ranger that will put an X in one corner of the IHS plate or the Dot on the lower portion, burn his Cpu and blame you.

So it's always best to just recommend a thin layer full coverage.

And for the record will take less than a pea size drop in most cases AMD or Intel.

Duh? the dot goes in the middle or on the right side to get core 1 cooled better?
Just sharing my experience, after changing from the thermal paste that came with my Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B with an even spread to OCZ Freeze and the pea method, my temps have dropped 10 degrees under load.
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:10 AM   #54
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Never had a CPU overheat using the dot method. I have however using the spread method. Poor results IMO are likely due to poorly seated HSF's rather than dot or X method. You know I am running dual Quads Shrimp. They are just a bit hotter than 85w... MY logic is infallible sir.

Concerning OCZ Freeze. I hate the stuff! No good for my Opterons. I get better results with white grease. I have tried every method known to man.
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Old 07-07-2010, 12:19 AM   #55
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I think before you perfect the cooling interface between heat spreader and heatsink, one should first optimize the cooling interface between core(s) and heat spreader. Imagine you would also use one of the best pastes inside... But removing the heat spreader voids warranty and could break your CPU if you're not careful.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:28 AM   #56
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Just sharing my experience, after changing from the thermal paste that came with my Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B with an even spread to OCZ Freeze and the pea method, my temps have dropped 10 degrees under load.
How is your experience with the Mugen 2? I'm considering it by I'm afraid its size could possibly be an issue. Mainly I'm worried the nb heatsink might be in the way.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:33 AM   #57
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How is your experience with the Mugen 2? I'm considering it by I'm afraid its size could possibly be an issue. Mainly I'm worried the nb heatsink might be in the way.
Pretty good, though I hate the way it's mounted. I have to completely take my motherboard out of my case to remount it, because it mounts from the backplate. It also pretty much requires 2 people to mount, as neither the backplate nor the cooler attaches to anything but each other.

I sit around 81C-82C on my hottest core with the overclock in my sig and LLC level 2 using a push-pull config running LinX. I'm also normally in the 23-25C ambient range.
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:37 AM   #58
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New personal experience,
X method worked best for me on AMDs
DOT worked best on my new Intel -~5c

That is all
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Old 07-07-2010, 01:47 AM   #59
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Pretty good, though I hate the way it's mounted. I have to completely take my motherboard out of my case to remount it, because it mounts from the backplate. It also pretty much requires 2 people to mount, as neither the backplate nor the cooler attaches to anything but each other.

I sit around 81C-82C on my hottest core with the overclock in my sig and LLC level 2 using a push-pull config running LinX. I'm also normally in the 23-25C ambient range.
I saw a video on installing it and the guy turned the cooler upside down on the table and mounted it that way lol. Looks like the best idea for it.
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Old 07-07-2010, 05:39 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by OptyTrooper View Post
Never had a CPU overheat using the dot method. I have however using the spread method. Poor results IMO are likely due to poorly seated HSF's rather than dot or X method. You know I am running dual Quads Shrimp. They are just a bit hotter than 85w... MY logic is infallible sir.

Concerning OCZ Freeze. I hate the stuff! No good for my Opterons. I get better results with white grease. I have tried every method known to man.

Yes Opty and your using dual air. You have a lot of variables in your case defining a good seating or not. Air flow and room temps being almost as important. With dual liquid, your temps probably would never exceed 45c even over clocked.

So I suppose any methods would work. Just as long as there is some kind of cooling. And I imagine the two stock Phenom HSF's I sent you are not doing your system justice...
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