Anyone here know about refrigirants?

phobix · 12-19-2002, 07:59 PM

I realize that this is probably not the proper forum for this kind of question but I figured that some of you extreme cooling guys may know a thing or 2 about the topic. (It's worth a try anyway)

I am in a little bit of a bind here. The water cooler systems I got were purged of the remaining R-12 because they were supposed to be sent to the US.

Basically, I have to recharge the systems with refrigirant but as you probably know one of the most popular legal options in North-America is to use an r-134a conversion, which apparently entails replacing the seals and rings, and potentially modifying the condensor, then running the system for a few days for leak checks as r-134a is composed of molecules that are smaller. The refrigiration tech quoted me like $300 to convert 1 of my water-chiller systems to r-134a, this in my opinion is too expensive...

I have heard by searching on the net that there is a drop-in replacement for r-12 called r416a but apparently this gas requires you to charge the system to 80% of what you would use with R-12.

Can anyone confirm if this is true, and if this is a legal option that is readily available? Also, if you know of any other possible solutions any help would be appreciated.

DoGMaN · 12-20-2002, 07:06 AM

Since you live in Canada, we have access to one of the best R-12 replacements there is. HC-12a. It has the characteristics of a hybrid of R-12 and R-22. R134a is a really crappy refrigerant don't use it unless you absolutely have to. HC-12a has a boiling point of about -37C where R134a is -26C it also has about 25% more heat removal capacity. Find an appliance repair store, they will generally be able to get/already use HC-12a. If not take a trip to Casino Niagara and I'll hook you up.

.

P.S. Did I mention its really cheap

phobix · 12-20-2002, 07:31 AM

Thanks Dogman, I will look into this lcoally to see if this stuff is available. Apparently my chillers need 2 lbs of refrigirant but I am going to check with the compressor Specs to be sure.

MuFf|nM@N · 12-20-2002, 09:38 AM

Also look into r404a

DoGMaN · 12-20-2002, 01:59 PM

R404a is a great choice, however it will mean that your tech will take about 6 times longer to fill your machine. Since the pressure is much higher with R404a you need to fill by temp and this means a lot more playing around. Also would require a retrofit on the compressor and changing the oil.

phobix · 12-20-2002, 02:36 PM

So HC-12a is a "True" drop-in replacement with no need to change oil in compressor, etc?

DoGMaN · 12-20-2002, 05:35 PM

Yup, drop it in and go. Will work on all r12, r22, r134a, etc.

**kwiksilver** · 12-21-2002, 04:49 PM

anyone else not understand this, I wanna learn about this stuff..

DoGMaN · 12-22-2002, 09:16 AM

Whatcho wanna know?

cloudkat · 12-22-2002, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DoGMaN
Whatcho wanna know?

Well, what I would like to know is can we here in the U.S. get that H-12 stuff??
I am soon to be getting a Promecia set-up, and it runs on 134a. But if this H-12 is so much better, I will switch the 134a for the H-12.

DoGMaN · 12-22-2002, 04:57 PM

HC-12a is banned in the USA.

phobix · 12-22-2002, 05:23 PM

Dogman,

Is it difficult to get in Canada? if i ask a local refrigeration technician for HC12a to will he know what I am talking about?

Thanks..

DoGMaN · 12-22-2002, 07:09 PM

Its readily used in Canada. It should not be hard to find.

**kwiksilver** · 12-23-2002, 01:05 AM

So what is all this HC12a and why is it banned in the US and what do the letter and number stand for? :?

DoGMaN · 12-23-2002, 02:10 PM

HC-12a is a hydro carbon blend refrigerant. Its kinda hard for me to explain. It is not legal in the USA because it has not passed EPA testing. I guess from some stuff that I have read, you can buy 6oz cans in the USA now.

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