Another Cheap AC Chiler Project

[Jarrow]

Well guess I should use up one of those 4 window ac's I have sitting in the garage that we don't use anymore. Think I have some ideas to keep it nice and compact... we will see.

I think it is a Kenmore branded 5000 btu model... have it running right now... wana see some frost... LOL






Additional Comment:

Gotta love it!



Think I'm getting hooked!

This is going to be fun.

[Nagoshi]

Wow, I would like to work with those kind of stuff. No space and no extra cash for the extra power consumption

GL on the project, keep us updated

[Jarrow]

I would like to make this as compact as possible... I'm already thinking about trying to locate a much smaller ac unit that will fit in a computer case.

I have one other unit that is pretty much identical to this one so if I mess this one up... no big deal. But before I start ripping this thing up more... I thought I should ask if this is a good idea: I was thinking about removing the evaporator fins and fabricating a 1/2" (or whatever size you guys think is good) coil or loop (not sure what it would be called)... but it would be the receiving end of the water loop and placing it between the two rows of the evaporators copper tubes.

My goal by doing that would be to make a very small and compact reservoir that would would exchange well (guess I will draw up some details on that so you all can see and give me your feedback.

Also I was thinking about replacing the large ac fan with some smaller case fans?

I'll do some drawing tonight.

Man this is cool... no pun intended... lol

I can't wait to make a unit (probably not this one) that will fit in my case... and better yet.. a direct die unit...woot!

[MaadDaawg]

Not exactly the same thing, but Swiftech should have it's i7 TEC unit on the market in 6 weeks - the 775's have been available. Supposed to put you way below zero degrees.

Not as much fun admittedly...

[Jarrow]

I think I just had a beter idea (maybe)... what if I just put an inlet and outlet barb on a plexiglass reservoir that was just big enough to enclose the evaporator simple and cheap! If I sand all the aluminum fins off the evaporator there will be no conflict with two metals... what do you think guys?

Additional Comment:

Originally Posted by MaadDaawg

Not exactly the same thing, but Swiftech should have it's i7 TEC unit on the market in 6 weeks - the 775's have been available. Supposed to put you way below zero degrees.

Not as much fun admittedly...

I have my doubts about that... I really was looking forward to that Tec assisted block. But many, including myself are skeptical if it will have what it take to get sub zero at full load on an overclocked i7.. which I think (not sure cuz I'm a noob to al this)... puts out around 400 watts or so at at say 1.5 vcore fully stessed. Price will be high with the psu and then you will probably need at least a 3x120 radiator... and if I were to go that way... I would want a controller for the tec to keep it above ambient if desired (less desire here now)

Big plus to me with that kind of system would be noise... it seems to me that with low speed fans on a nice water setup it it would be very quiet. Not sure about how quiet the dedicated psu for it would be tho? I think they have small fans... read that in a review somware.

Additional Comment:

Here is a rough drawing of my idea for the cooler reservoir (sorry, I'm kind of tired or I would have made a better drawing)

This reservoir would be just big enough in all directions for the evaporator to fit in tightly.. about 15" x 9" x 1.5"

I'm trying to keep it small and compact... if it isn't that efficient that would be ok for this one... if I just get close to zero I think that would be ok for this one... cuz I think I'm going to build a direct die unit out of the other small A.C. I have.
I have to figure out some kind of baffling to get good flow across all or most of the evaporator not sure if I should remove the fins or not... maybe the could help me channel the water some how if the evaporator was a tight fit to the side of the plexiglas? going to have to think about this a bit.

I am totaly open to suggestions here because I am novice at this!

[Nagoshi]

With such a small reservoir your water in there is going to freeze quite fast.

[Jarrow]

Originally Posted by Nagoshi

With such a small reservoir your water in there is going to freeze quite fast.

Even with an antifreeze mixture?

[Nagoshi]

Now that you mention it, probably not (I'm dumb? lol), but even an antifreeze mixture will have a freezing power "higher" than pure antifreeze/Prestone. So, all depending on what kind of temps this thing can reach, you'll have to calculate this, as "pure" water flows heat better than a mix of water and antifreeze.

Another thing you could do is make your reservoir slightly bigger, and run a separate loop for your watercooling parts - keep your idea, but put a secondary big radiator (with no fans, obviously) in the reservoir that will conduct the temp into your water loop to your computer, instead of directly using the water that "touches" the chiller. That way you rule out any possibility of rust/particles/dirt/frost going in your loop and f'up something.

Last thing you want is a frozen or damaged pump/block/tubes. You'll also have to watch for condensation.

As I said I am no expert, but that project looks good and if I had the time/money to pay for the chiller and electricity bills I would do one just like yours.

[Jarrow]

Getting ready for the reservoir.

Removed the evaporator shroud



Cut the evaporator fan shaft off to make more room for the reservoir.



This is project is just going to be a quicky... I'm too excited to get it fired up! I will make a pretty one later.

Additional Comment:

Well... got it hooked up and all I can say is ... this is crazy cool!!!

Too cold... I need to insulate!!!

Was -20* idle @ 4ghz 1.4 vcore and the ac was only on for a little bit... had to turn it off!

I need new hose... cheap stuff gets too stiff... like a rock!
I'm using -30* windshield wiper fluid... but I need to get some antifreeze...still have 2 metals.. so that's not good without protection.

I'm very tired so I will post screen pictures and screen shots tomorrow.

Need to find out where to get neoprene & art eraser!

[utnorris]

OK, so a couple of things. If you plan to do sub-zero cooling, which I believe you are, then doing an acrylic res will not be the best idea as it may crack from the cold and the anti-freeze. For the res you could do a couple of things, one is the tried and true Rubbermaid 12 can cooler. Your evaporator is perfect since the tubing is already bent upwards so it should slide right in and the cooler is pretty small. The other option is to build one, but make it out of Delrin or ABS plastic or some other hard plastic and seal it with a rubber silicone that can handle the low temps. Obviously you would insulate the outside. Now the other issue you are going to run into with going with a small res is that the system will cycle on and off a lot due to the small volume of liquid. Granted it won't take long for it to drop the temp back down, but still. Now of course if you are planning on letting it run non-stop to try and get the lowest temp, then it won't matter. You could always remove the evaporator and put a heat exchanger on it if you will be running it all out.

As far as parts, try Mcmasters.com, should have everything you are looking for from tubing to the art eraser.

Also, if you want to see what the rubbermaid cooler looks like jump over to my chiller build and you can see it on the last page. Have fun with it.

[eligray]

I believe that windshield wiper fluid with say 20% AF mixed in should work well. The AF should help against corrosion as well (its the most common solution for mixed metals).

utnorris, what would you think about denatured alcohol? Should be like -115c freezing point. I know its flammable though.

[oldmcscott]

the only problem I have with using windshield washer fluid is the fact that it is primarily made from alcohol and water. I work in the automotive industry and I have seen a pint of fluid disappear overnight because of alcohol evaporation. there is lots of alternatives out there and I believe that the best antifreeze that you could add to the system is ones based on propylene-glycol. they are non-toxic and easy to come by. you can pick some up at a swimming pool supply shop and mix it yourself or look for a RV antifreeze at the parts store. The only other non toxic alternative that you may want to look into is just adding vinegar to water, herd that that could also work. either of these options will not evaporate and if your pets get into them they don't die, at least not from the coolant!

ASUS P5Q pro
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3 Scythe 68.5 cfm 24 dba fans
asus eax1550 video card
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[utnorris]

From what I have read a lot of the guys in extreme chillers will use denaturalized alcohol, however there are a few things you have to be aware of when going extremely low temp wise, by that I mean say -20c.

1- Your waterblock's top and bottom should be brazed together and the o-ring should be removed. Extreme cold will cause the rubber to become brittle and it will not seal properly.

2 - As I stated before, if you are going to use acyrlic you will run into issues with it cracking from the cold and the alcohol.

3 - If you use straight denatualized alcohol then corrosion won't be an issue. You will only have to worry about corrosion if you have water in the loop, whether it's a 80/20 mix or a 50/50 mix you would need some sort of anti-corrosive additive in the mix.\

4 - The tubing needs to be rated to go that low and you need to insulate everything inside the case that comes in contact with the liquid, i.e. the tubing, pump, block, etc. These will all be condensation points so you have to insulate to prevent this.

5 - The motherboard will need to be prepped also, both front and back for condensation also.

6 - Also, the pump needs to be able to handle the low temps, look at Iwaki pumps. I do not believe the MCP355 or MCP655 Laing pumps will handle temps below 10-20c.

Finally, do not add vinegar to the water. It will eat away at any copper that is in the loop, regardless of how diluted it is, just means it would take longer. I do not like the idea of using alcohol in my loop, anti-freeze is usually good enough unless you are trying to hit really low, -40 or so.

[Jarrow]

I have have run at 4.2GHZ for a lot longer than this (about 1/2hr).. but for this screen shot... I noticed 16v for the 12v (see highlighted red oval in the picture below) ... this scares me!!!

Going back to 4ghz untill I figure this out.

[eligray]

hey! nice job man, those are awesome temps for an i7

[Jarrow]

I'm sure I can get better... I have 8' feet of un-insulated hose, un-insulated reservoir, a cheap low flow pond pump, a lousy DD waterblock that I know is 5* worse than a d-tec fusion with the quad adapter... and maybe I can lower the vCore.

I just put the vCore up to 1.55 for stability... didn't know if I really needed it... I will do a proper overclock later.

But... what about the 16 volts... that scares me!!!

Also if I let the chiller cool down before starting up the computer.. it gets lower temps and seems to hold them.

I'm still un-insulated so I'm not going full blast yet. I bought some neoprene... need to get the artist eraser tomorrow... and not sure if I should use the grease in the socket... this board might be going back in exchange for an EVGA or Gigabyte EX58-UD5. The board I really want is the Gigabyte EX58-Extreme because it has the waterblock on the NB... but I guess I can put waterblocks on any board.

Anyway this board only has 4 dimm slots and I would like to have more as I want to buy the Kingston 3gb ddr3 2000 from NewEgg right now $119 and the 6gb kit is 240 (can't afford)... so I figure buy the 3gb kit and add later.. but I need more slots to do that.

The neoprene I bought is like rubber.. not foam... is that the right stuff?

I will post the rest of the build pics tomorrow... need to get to bed... late .. almost 3am... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Nagoshi]

Use your multimeter and measure up the voltage lines by yourself. If your 12V line really had 16V your computer would melt in a big pile of brick

Also, I think you should use RealTemp to measure any Intel chip's temps. TjMax will have to be adjusted.

Nice temps

[Jarrow]

Originally Posted by Nagoshi

Also, I think you should use RealTemp to measure any Intel chip's temps. TjMax will have to be adjusted.

Nice temps

These are at 4.1ghz 1.4vCore ... I think?

[Jarrow]

I was in a hurry so... a quick simple small box too keep everything inside the original enclosure.. I should be able to put a couple of gromets in the old cover. I will build a smaller one later... still have three more window ac units in the garage.



Plastic coating


Worked well... no leaks so far.

Compact quicky... will put the cover on later when I build an insulated reservoir... probably remove the 110v fan and replace with some quiet 12v units.


I don't recommend this block... I returned it before to Microcenter only to buy it again... I was in too big of a hurry to wait for a better one from an online source.



$34 400gph pump from Home Depot... will be going back.



Going down under.


sub-zero


Using this for now... but will change to antifreeze with anti-corrosion due to aluminum & copper system... might change to copper coil in the reservoir... any thoughts on that? I knew by using the reservoir water I would have a good exchange... but it caused a problem as you will see later on.


OK... a little bit cooler than my old 2X120 radiator setup.


Hmmm... think I shouls insulate?




This is how a was able to keep the compresor going... hot water. I place the thermocoupler in the return hose to run above ambient. I would like to figure out how to modify the thermostat to be adjustable from ambient to max chill... open to sugestions.


I ended up with a condensation problem which ended up causing my computer to freeze and then not boot up... you can see the water marks and if you look close... you can still see some of the remaining water on the water block... I GOT OFF EASY... COULD HAVE BEEN BAD!

I am wondering what is the best way to insulate the motherboard... something I can run 24/7 for months on end? I bought the greese and art eraser... but I want to think this out... also... I might be trading my Gigabyte EX58-UD3R for an EVGA or beter Gigabyte board.. mainly for more ram slots... and also I just don't know what's going on with the 16v reading on the 12v rail.. I bought a new 950w psu and the problem is still there... how do a check that with a mutimeter to se if it is real or a sensor/software glitch?



Think I should lap my cpu?


I have my eyes on some water coolers at home depot... about $100... that look like they would have smaller parts to make a direct die or water chiller that would fit in a case... a la Vaporchill style. Also I think that other people have been able to get much lower temps than this?

[eligray]

my 24/7 insulation is kneadable eraser plus neoprene, look it up on XS