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Old 04-10-2009, 06:06 AM   #1
davidhammock200
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Lightbulb UPS: Uninterruptible Power Supply Guide

UPS: Uninterruptible Power Supply Guide

As none of the major forums have a comprehensive Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) Guide, we here at EOCF shall again lead the way, as we did in 2004 with our "Power Supply Guide for Today's & Tomorrow's Computers".
Input from all of the many knowledgeable EOCF members will be required in order to make "our" UPS Guide the definitive Uninterruptible Power Supply Guide, just as we have made our Power Supply Guide for "Today's & Tomorrow's Computers" the definitive PSU Guide.

Start Date: 4-10-09 & of course this shall never be completed, Dave. Updated 4-25-09.

(1) Calculate your wattage, using the Outer Vision eXtreme PSU Calculator . Just use the wattage given, everything offsets very nicely.

(2) Select UPS Type, either "Simulated Sine Wave" for controlled shutdown only or
"True Sine Wave" for long term operation under battery power.

"Simulated Sine Wave" with AVR for Controlled Shutdown Only:

540 Watts: APC Back-UPS RS 800VA . From $116

780 Watts: APC BACK-UPS RS 1300VA LCD . From $175

865 Watts: APC BACK-UPS RS 1500VA LCD . From $195

"True Sine Wave" with AVR for Long Term Operation Under Battery Power:

500 Watts: APC Smart-UPS 750VA USB & Serial . From $239

670 Watts: APC Smart-UPS 1000VA USB & Serial . From $448

980 Watts: APC Smart-UPS 1500VA USB & Serial . From $496

1980 Watts: APC Smart-UPS 2200VA USB & Serial . From $685

2700 Watts: APC Smart-UPS 3000VA USB & Serial . From $922

"True Sine Wave" with AVR and Optional Plug-In Battery Packs for Extendable Run-Time:

600 Watts: APC Smart-UPS XL 750VA USB & Serial 120V . From $380

800 Watts: APC Smart-UPS XL 1000VA USB & Serial 120V . From $510

1050 Watts: APC Smart-UPS XL 1400VA Rack Mount 3U 120V . From $720

1450 Watts: APC Smart-UPS XL Modular 1500VA 120V Rackmount/Tower . From $950

1850 Watts: APC Smart-UPS XL 2200VA 120V Tower/Rack Convertible . From $1060

2700 Watts: APC Smart-UPS XL 3000VA 120V Tower/Rack Convertible . From $1150

APC Smart-UPS XL External Plug-in Battery Packs to Extend Run-time.

From APC Direct: From $340. Select Model & Click on "Add Options".

APC Smart-UPS XL External Plug-in Battery Packs: From $221

Dual Conversion "On-Line" with True Sine Wave, AVR and Optional Plug-In Battery Packs for Extendable Run-Time: PM me if you think you need a Dual Conversion UPS.

1050 Watts: APC SMART-UPS RT 1500VA . From $840.

1400 Watts: APC SMART-UPS RT 2000VA . From $1069.

2100 Watts: APC SMART-UPS RT 3000VA . From $1692.

Similar UPS's are available from several Name Brand sources linked below.

Buying Refurbished UPS's with New Battery & Warranty Can Save You 50% to 70%!

This UPS Guide will focus solely on Uninterruptible Power Supplies designed & priced for the PC & Workstation markets. We will not get in to the extreme requirements of mission-critical Electronic Draft Capture (EDC) transaction processing centers, NASA or the DOD. Will will use KISS, Keep It Simple Silly, & concentrate on what 95%+ of EOCF members & guest might like to use in their home, Home/Office & Small Business systems, with emphasis on OC'ing & gaming systems.

What is an Uninterruptible Power Supply? An UPS is a battery back-up power system that is placed between the wall outlet & your computer system & provides power for your system when power from the wall is unavailable or unusable.

Why do I/we need/want a UPS: There are several reasons that once you understand UPS's, you will never want to be without one ever again. These include:

Power Outages: When the power goes out, without a UPS your system crashes, period! This frags the OS/apps & games. You lose data & often results in BDOS upon reboot. Of course in addition to having to reinstall everything, you may need a new HDD or more to install it on! A surge protector will not help.

Brown Outs: Brown outs occur when the incoming AC voltage drops 15% or more, this causes your PSU to pull more amperage to make up for the lack of voltage, thereby creating overheating for the PSU & unstable voltages for your system. This will lead to poor performance, system crashes & early failure. A surge protector will not help.

Over Voltage: The opposite of brown outs, where the incoming voltage is too high causing similar problems for your system. A surge protector will not help.

Dirty Voltage: The incoming AC voltage is unstable, contains sever transient spikes & is not presenting a proper sign wave. This is a primary cause of ELF (Early Life Failure) or if less sever kill more slowly over time. Also there is no way to get stable, high OC'es with dirty voltage. A surge protector will not help.

Surge Protection: A good UPS will sacrifice itself to save your system in case of lightening or surges from other sources. With lightening there are no guarantees, but you are far better off with a UPS, than without one! A surge protector will help.

System Life, System Stability & OC'ing: With voltage going up, down, on, off, having large transient spikes & all manner of other noise, how do you expect your system to "Live Long & Prosper"? The highest "Bench Shot" OC'es are obtained using UPS's! The highest "24/7" OC'es are obtained using UPS's! A surge protector will not help. Systems using UPS's are proven "on average" to last longer & perform better! You want a UPS! But which one?

Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR): When the AC input voltage is too low or too high, AVR steps in and raises or lowers the voltage accordingly, to get it back in spec & it does this without using the back-up battery.

Cheap UPS's lacking AVR must go to battery every time the AC input voltage is too high or too low. This constant, but usually minor draining, greatly lowers the battery run-time should the power fail & will also shorten the life of your battery, requiring more frequent battery replacements.

Not all AVR's are created equal! Some units allow the VAC output to go as low as 75VAC & this is just too low for safe & efficient long-term operation of a ATX/EPS PSU! Better PSU's will run forever on 100VAC & for quite awhile on 89VAC, but going below about 87VAC for long-term operation is just asking for trouble.

For our purposes we want AVR, so we will automatically reject all of the extreme lowend UPS's that do not have AVR or have poorly or loosely regulated AVR.

So, AVR is now a Requirement for Recommendation!

Example: APC Back-UPS RS 800VA 120V Priced from about $127.

Types of UPS by Wave Output:

Sticking with our KISS principle & making this a buyers guide, not a tech discussion or debate, let's look at what is important to our target users.

Stepped Wave AKA Modified/Simulated Sine Wave AKA PWM Sine Wave: Starting out as a true "Square Wave", which is by definition "pulsed DC" & will not work with AC appliances & would damage most AC appliances including your computer's PSU, the wave form is modified to become a "dirty" AC wave form. This dirty AC "stepped wave" or a "modified sine wave" is NOT intended for long term operation of any AC devices, other than perhaps light bulbs, but is intended to provide sufficient power to allow for an orderly, controlled & thus non-damaging, non-data losing shut-down.

Running a stepped wave/modified sine wave for a long period of time will damage the Active PFC circuitry of your PSU & cause your PSU to overheat, shortening the life of your PSU & possibly harming the system itself.

Please note that all "Recommended UPS's" will have tested & proven software that will save all files, close all files, close all programs & automatically shutdown your system if you are not present when the power fails.

So, stepped wave/modified sine wave is acceptable for short term use, to allow enough time for a controlled shutdown.

Example: APC Back-UPS RS 800VA 120V Priced from about $127.

True or Pure Sine Wave Output: Now we are heading in to the higher end of the UPS spectrum. These UPS's output a perfect or near perfect sine wave just like the generators at a hydro-electric plant & can run your system FOREVER, without damaging anything.

If you live in an area with frequent &/or prolonged power outages, then you also need the ability to add extra external batteries to increase your run-time.

If you need the ability to run on battery for more than just a few minutes, then you MUST use a True/Pure Sine Wave UPS.

Example: APC Smart-UPS 1000VA Priced from about $300.

Wattage & V/A: For consumer units powering modern computers who's PSU have Active PFC we do not even consider V/A (Volt/Amps). Now if you were powering 100+ systems in a business park, things would be different.

We are only concerned with WATTAGE! The wattage rating of your UPS must equal or exceed the actual wattage used by your system, including, monitor(s), modems, routers & everything that you intend to run on battery power during a power outage.

Although APC & others provide UPS Calculators, none are as up to date & as useful as the Outer Vision eXtreme PSU Calculator, use it to determine the minimum UPS wattage rating required to power your system. The results are conservative, reaching an excellent balance, go with its results as a minimum starting point. Higher wattage UPS's provide longer run time, however so do attaching external battery packs, which is often the more cost effective route.

If you have an inexpensive, portable generator, do NOT plan on running your UPS or computer off of it, unless it specifies True/Pure Sine Wave output. Using a cheap generator will quickly kill both your UPS & your computer!

Types & Topologies: This is a highly technical discussion & we will address these issues later, for now we are primarily looking at "Line Interactive Stand By UPS's" and "Dual Conversion On-Line UPS's".

"Line Interactive Stand By UPS's" are on constant standby, always ready to use their AVR to lower high voltage or boost low voltage & take over completely in the event of a power outage. Their "switching time" is so fast, that no system powered by a good PSU will ever notice any interruption. They also provide some power conditioning and noise suppression, in addition to keeping the system on regardless of the VAC input or lack there of.

"Dual Conversion On-Line UPS's" are always on & convert the incoming VAC to DC, charge the batteries, then convert the DC back to VAC, thus they always provide complete power conditioning, absolute voltage regulation, total noise suppression & "0" "switching time" in the event of a power outage. Although designed for "mission critical" operations, especially in "N+1" configurations, they are also the ONLY choice in locations with truly "dirty" VAC. PM me if you think you need a Dual Conversion UPS.

Please see "Additional Information & Resources" for additional discussions & information.

Brands: Listed below in alphabetical order are the most common consumer brands available in North America. APC UPS's are by far the most common & are used as examples in this UPS Guide because, (1) I am personally familiar with APC UPS's having used several hundred over the past 15 or so years, (2) they are very reliable in that out of several hundred only a dozen or so were DOA or suffered Early Life Failure (ELF), (3) their extensive lines include all classes from cheap non-AVR (not recommended) units to $100K+ major data center "mission critical" power management systems.

APC Most Popular & Most Models. Quality Fair to Excellent

Belkin Very Limited Information & Offerings. Quality Fair to Good

CyberPower Quality Poor to Good

IDowell For Apple Systems? Quality Unknown

Leviton Professional Power Systems. Quality Good to Excellent

Leviton Pro Series UPSs: "Simulated Sine Wave" with AVR for Controlled Shutdown Only:

U0425-PT2 Tower 425VA / 255W 4 Min 17 Min 6 5-15R
U0625-PT2 Tower 625VA / 375W 4 Min 11 Min 6 5-15R
U0825-PT2 Tower 825VA / 495W 6 Min 20 Min 6 5-15R
U1000-AKP Tower 1000VA / 600W 4 Min 13 Min 5 5-15R
U1500-AKP Tower 1500VA / 900W 5 Min 18 Min 5 5-15R
U2200-AKP Tower 2200VA / 1320W 5 Min 22 Min 6 5-15R
U0500-AKP Desktop 500VA / 350W 5 Min 20 Min 5 5-15R
U0600-ARM Rack-mount, 1U 600VA / 420W 7 Min 22 Min 5 5-15R

Some of these are hard to find so Google for Availability & Pricing.

Leviton Sine Series UPSs: "True Sine Wave" with AVR for Long Term Operation Under Battery Power:

U0800-OSK Tower 800VA / 560W 5 Min 14 Min 4 5-15R
U1000-OSK Tower 1000VA / 700W 5 Min 14 Min 4 5-15R
U1500-OSK Tower 1500VA / 1050W 5 Min 19 Min 6 5-15R
U2000-OSK Tower 2000VA / 1400W 5 Min 14 Min 6 5-15R
U3000-OSK Tower 3000VA / 2100W 10 Min 47 Min 6 5-15R
U0800-SRM Rack-mount, 3U 800VA / 560W 10 Min 20 Min 4 5-15R
U1500-SRM Rack-mount, 3U 1500VA / 1050W 5 Min 19 Min 6 5-15R
U2000-SRM Rack-mount, 3U 2000VA / 1400W 10 Min 47 Min 6 5-15R
U3000-SRM Rack-mount, 4U 3000VA / 2100W 10 Min 47 Min 6 5-15R

Some of these are hard to find so Google for Availability & Pricing.

Leviton Online Series UPSs: Dual Conversion "On-Line" with True Sine Wave, AVR and Optional Plug-In Battery Packs for Extendable Run-Time: PM me if you think you need a Dual Conversion UPS.

U1000-VNL Tower 1000VA / 700W 7 Min 15 Min 6 5-15R
U1500-VNL Tower 1500VA / 1050W 5 Min 11 Min 6 5-15R
U2000-VNL Tower 2000VA / 1400W 7 Min 15 Min 12 5-15R
U3000-VNL Tower 3000VA / 2100W 6 Min 15 Min 12 5-15R
U1000-VRM Rack-mount, 2U 1000VA / 700W 7 Min 15 Min 6 5-15R
U1500-VRM Rack-mount, 2U 1500VA / 1050W 5 Min 11 Min 6 5-15R
U2000-VRM Rack-mount, 2U 2000VA / 1400W 7 Min 15 Min 4 5-15R
U3000-VRM Rack-mount, 2U 3000VA / 2100W 6 Min 15 Min 4 5-15R
U1000-DRM Rack-mount, 1U 1000VA / 700W 7 Min 15 Min 6 5-15R

Some of these are hard to find so Google for Availability & Pricing.

Leviton UPS's are sometimes available as "Refurbs" with new battery & warranty & these can be excellent values!

Minuteman Industrial Power Systems. Quality Good

Panamax Seems to be Primary for Home Theater. Quality Unknown

Powercom Offers Several Different UPS's, Quality Poor to Fair

Tripp Lite Large Selection. Quality Poor to Good

Tripp Lite UPS's are very difficult to "Recommend" as the quality varies greatly even within their higher-end lines, so no "series" other than their "top of the line, All SmartOnline" series can be recommended & the specific models that are recommended are based on the publishes specs & general reputation, not on personal experience or professional test/reviews. If you want to "play it safe" stick to the "Recommended" APC & Leviton UPS's. I will personally "vouch" for these APC's & Leviton's.

Tripp Lite OmniSmart UPS Series UPS's: "Simulated Sine Wave" with AVR for Controlled Shutdown Only:

300 Watts: Tripp Lite OMNISMART300PNP . From $87.





















Tripp Lite All SmartOnline Series: Dual Conversion "On-Line" with True Sine Wave, AVR and Optional Plug-In Battery Packs for Extendable Run-Time: PM me if you think you need a Dual Conversion UPS.

600 Watts: SU750XL 750 Tower 6 x NEMA 5-15R 120V (110V, 100V) AC $459.00 ERP Check Prices

600 Watts: SU750RTXL2U 750 Rack (2U) 6 NEMA 5-15R 120V AC (100/110/120V) $449.00 ERP Check Prices

800 Watts: SU1000XLA 1000 Tower 6 NEMA 5-15R 120V (100V, 110V) AC $509.00 ERP Check Prices

800 Watts: SU1000RTXL2UA 1000 Rack (2U) 6 NEMA 5-15R 120V AC (100/110/120V) $549.00 ERP Check Prices

1200 Watts: SU1500XL 1500 Tower 6 x NEMA 5-15R 120V (110V, 100V) $649.00 ERP Check Prices

1200 Watts: SU1500RTXL2UA 1500 Rack (2U) 6 x NEMA 5-15R 120V AC (100/110/120V) $699.00 ERP Check Prices

1600 Watts: SU2200XLA 2200 Tower 6 x NEMA 5-15/20R, 1 x NEMA L5-20R 120V AC (110/120V) $969.00 ERP Check Prices

1600 Watts: SU2200RTXL2UA 2200 Rack (2U) 6 NEMA 5-15/20R, 1 NEMA L5-20R 120V AC (110/120V) $1,049.00 ERP Check Prices

2400 Watts: SU3000XL 3000 Tower 4 NEMA 5-15R, 4 NEMA 5-15/20R, 1 NEMA L5-30R 120V AC $1,321.00 ERP Check Prices

2500 Watts: SU3000RTXL2U 3000 Supports 2U rackmount installation in 4 post racks using included mounting accessories. Add 2POSTRMKITWM for two post racks and wallmount installation. Add 2-9USTAND accessory for upright tower installation 7 outlets total (6 5-15/20R / 1 L5-30R) 100/110/115/120/127VAC (factory configured for 120v) $1,269.00 ERP Check Prices

2400 Watts: SU3000RTXL3U 3000 Rack (3U) 4 NEMA 5-15R, 4 NEMA 5-15/20R, 1 NEMA L5-30R 120V AC (100/110/120V) $1,349.00 ERP Check Prices

2400 Watts: SU3000RTXR3U 3000 Rack (3U) 4 NEMA 5-15R, 4 NEMA 5-15/20R, 1 NEMA L5-30R 120V AC (110/120V) $1,599.00 ERP Check Prices

Buying Refurbished UPS's with New Battery & Warranty Can Save You 50% to 70%!

There are many private & "In house" brands & we will probably never know their levels of quality, so none can be recommended.

As is the case with almost all PSU's, most UPS's are subcontracted to Asian, primarily Chinese companies for manufacture. This does not make them "re-branded" anythings, as products are built to the specs & standards of the contracting companies.

Reviews: I have yet to find any websites doing professional UPS reviews, this is exactly the same situation we faced back in 2004, when I started the PSU Guide & hopefully this will soon change! Please post any sites you find doing UPS test & reviews.

DigitalTrends UPS Reviews

Battery Selection & Replacement: Obviously replacement batteries are usually available from the name brand vendors listed above, however you can often save 50% & get a better battery else where.

UPS Replacement Batteries with 2yr Warranty

Sources:

American Power Conversion

APC's extensive website has virtually everything anyone would want to learn about UPS's, their technology & uses. It makes for both excellent research & interesting reading. If you sign-up for their various publications, you also get truly scholarly white papers as well.

Power Supply Guide for Today's & Tomorrow's Computers

Additional Information & Resources:

UPS for Numpties: Types of UPS, by toneus

This very informative site was linked & I believe created by "toneus", a brand new EOCF member, who was kind enough to link it in his very first post! See post # 6 for details.

Dave
Last Update: 4-25-09

Last edited by davidhammock200 : 04-26-2009 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:06 PM   #2
MaadDaawg
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APC Baclups XS 1500.

Bought it primarily to maintain a constant current to my rig and prevent any problems from spikes or milisecond blackouts. I have it plugged into a heavy duty spike protector as well just in case.

Current management was what sold me on this as the unit will add power if the house current dips and reduce input when the current spikes. A must when benchmarking

I have all relevant components plugged into it so it serves as a master on/off switch as well.

04/10/09
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:36 AM   #3
jevans64
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I currently have 7 systems that run Folding@Home 24/7 and use three UPS to provide stable power and protection from power outages and surges.

APC SmartUPS 1500 ( SUA1500 ) #1 -- 1440va, 980w -- 2 systems attached with 58% load and 9 minutes run time.
-- System 1 = Shuttle SX48P2E with E8500@3.16GHz + 9800GTX+
-- System 2 = Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R with Thermaltake 700w PSU - Q6600 G0 @ 3.0 GHz + GTX 295

APC SmartUPS 1500 ( SUA1500 ) #2 -- 1440va, 980w -- 2 systems attached with 54% load and 10 minutes run time.
-- System 1 = Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R with Antec NeoHE 550w PSU - Q6600 G0 @ 3.2 GHz + 9800GTX+
-- System 2 = Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R with Antec NeoHE 550w PSU - Q6600 G0 @ 3.2 GHz + 9800GTX+

CyberPower PR2200LCDRT2U -- 2170va, 1600w -- 3 systems attached with 59% load and 10.6 minutes run time.
-- System 1 = Asus P5Q Deluxe - OCZ EliteXStream 800w PSU - Q9550 @ 3.4 GHz - 9800GTX+
-- System 2 = Asus P5E-VM HDMI - Antec NeoHD 650w PSU - Q6600 @ 3.2 GHz - GTX 280
-- System 3 = Asus P5E-VM HDMI - Antec NeoHD 550w PSU - Q6600 @ 3.2 GHz - GTX 285

The batteries in the APC units have been lasting about 18 months before needing replacement. The replacement batteries cost about $103 shipped from American Battery Company. The ABC batteries are warrantied for 24 months and I have been getting warranty replacements.

The battery pack for the CyberPower PR2200 is going to cost about $260.

Both of the APC SUA1500's were refurbished units I picked up from eBay and have held up nicely considering. I've had the 1st one about 8 years and it is on its 4th battery. I've had the second one about 3 years and it is on its 2nd battery. When purchasing these units from eBay expect to have to purchase a new battery -- I had to in both cases since the batteries were just about depleted when I got them. You have to install the PowerChute software in order to get detailed information from the UPS. The load and run time information is pretty accurate and comes to within 1% of system wattage data from a Kill-A-Watt device.

I purchased the CyberPower new and had to send it back twice for RMA replacement. Once because Amazon sent me a used unit that was defective out-of-the-box. I had to RMA the second unit because of a known defective hardware issue. The third unit has been running fine for about 6 months now. CyberPower seem to have quality issues but the RMA service was good. The CyberPower unit has a built-in LCD display and makes gathering usage data very easy. The system wattage readings also come very close to what you can get from a Kill-A-Watt.

Spent battery disposal is fairly easy. I take my spent batteries to Batteries Plus and they don't charge to recycle. Their refurbished RBC-7 packs for the APC SUA1500 were about as much as new ones from ABC and is a good alternative if you need a battery quickly.

04/11/2009

Last edited by jevans64 : 04-11-2009 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 04-12-2009, 04:48 AM   #4
earl
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Here are a couple of links from APC that may be of interest...

Different types of UPS
http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en...i=&p_topview=1

UPS selection for servers with Active PFC power supplies
http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/R..****RC_R1_EN.pdf

Computers containing PFC (Power Factor Corrected) power supplies and their use with Back-UPS or Smart-UPS SC UPS
http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en...p?p_faqid=8883
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:17 AM   #5
davidhammock200
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Excellent guys! Please keep them coming!

Also information and personal experiences with all brands of UPS's.

Are their any EU or Asian brands that I have not listed?

Many Thanks,
Dave
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:09 PM   #6
toneus
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A bit about UPS

There's lots of UPS "badges" (many of the smaller models (by small I mean anything pluggable - 3KVA and under) are manufactured by some of the big Asian companies and rebadged), and include:

MGE
Powerware
Kehua
Opti
Masterguard
Chloride

I'm in the middle of a work in progress at the moment but should still have some useful information, so check out:
http://www.powerinspired.co.uk/ups-f...ex.php?page=12 where we've got a flash doc showing the differences between the different UPS technologies.

Your choice of UPS really depends upon the level of protection you're looking for. As a rule of thumb you have these options:

1. Offline - Cheap, but has square wave inverter. Basic Surge and battery backup only.
2. Line Interactive Square Wave. You know it's square wave because the costs are similar to 1. The difference between this and 1 is that there is some voltage regulation.
3. Line Interactive Sinewave. Now in the realms of professional UPS systems. More expensive, but sinewave systems provide highest compatibility and good levels of power protection.
4. Online Double Conversion. Professional Grade Power Protection. Protects against practically all power problems. Consumes more electricity than the other types and has forced cooling fans, so makes a noise.

If you're going to want lots of runtime you should always, always opt for either 3 or 4. Square wave systems should only be used to allow you to shut down your system without loss of data.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:53 AM   #7
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Welcome to the Club!

Quote:
Your choice of UPS really depends upon the level of protection you're looking for. As a rule of thumb you have these options:

1. Offline - Cheap, but has square wave inverter. Basic Surge and battery backup only.
2. Line Interactive Square Wave. You know it's square wave because the costs are similar to 1. The difference between this and 1 is that there is some voltage regulation.
3. Line Interactive Sinewave. Now in the realms of professional UPS systems. More expensive, but sinewave systems provide highest compatibility and good levels of power protection.
4. Online Double Conversion. Professional Grade Power Protection. Protects against practically all power problems. Consumes more electricity than the other types and has forced cooling fans, so makes a noise.

If you're going to want lots of runtime you should always, always opt for either 3 or 4. Square wave systems should only be used to allow you to shut down your system without loss of data.
Correct & Very Good!

The reference to "Square Wave" is somewhat misleading, as the final output waveform is what is popularly called a "stepped wave" or a "modified sine wave". Although starting out as a true "Square Wave", which is by definition "pulsed DC" & will not work with AC appliances & would damage most AC appliances including your computer's PSU, the wave form is modified to become a "dirty" AC wave form. This dirty AC "stepped wave" or a "modified sine wave" is NOT intended for long term operation of any AC devices, other than perhaps light bulbs, but is intended to provide sufficient power to allow for an orderly, controlled & thus non-damaging, non-data losing shut-down.

I dislike the word "re-badged", as it can be very misleading, often far more accurate terms would be "sub-contracted" & "manufactured by". A Lincoln Town Car is not a "re-badged" Ford Crown Victoria & Lexus 300-series are not "re-badged" Toyota's. In the PSU world Seasonic is the "sub-contractor" for several Antec, Corsair & PC P&C PSU's as well as producing their own unique models & nothing is "re-badged" about any of them.

Your website is an ideal addition to our new UPS Guide and your input, especially in describing the basic topologies are welcome indeed. If you can cover the various abilities of the most common forms of AVR, it will be most appericated!

I know that I speak for all of us in welcoming you to EOCF & we all look forward to your future post!

Welcome Aboard!
Dave

Additional Comment:

OK, Please come & take a look & post your suggestions.

I know it is far from finished, but I need your input to "get it right",
especially your suggestions as to the format.

Many Thanks,
Dave

Last edited by davidhammock200 : 04-21-2009 at 02:53 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 04-21-2009, 03:55 AM   #8
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Just a somewhat random question regarding UPS ratings that I hope someone with a background in power systems could answer: why is there such a discrepancy between the VA and W rating? It doesn't make sense to me since the device is designed to run with PFC'ed loads, so the ratings should be at least somewhat close. How could a power supply be so tuned to run inductive loads so well?

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I dislike the word "re-badged", as it can be very misleading, often far more accurate terms would be "sub-contracted" & "manufactured by". A Lincoln Town Car is not a "re-badged" Ford Crown Victoria & Lexus 300-series are not "re-badged" Toyota's.
Just another example of why car analogies are horrible and should never be used.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewecallgod View Post
Just a somewhat random question regarding UPS ratings that I hope someone with a background in power systems could answer: why is there such a discrepancy between the VA and W rating? It doesn't make sense to me since the device is designed to run with PFC'ed loads, so the ratings should be at least somewhat close. How could a power supply be so tuned to run inductive loads so well?

Just another example of why car analogies are horrible and should never be used.
V/A ratings were very useful back when most PSU's didn't have any PFC, now that almost all PSU's have Active PFC, it is pretty useless. Wattage is almost always about 60% of the V/A rating.

V/A is reactive, reflected or better yet "apparent" load & causes the power grid to over estimate wattage, thus thicker wiring, bigger breakers, larger transformers, etc. are used than are actually necessary for the wattage.

In a perfect world V/A & wattage would be the same & we are about 98% there!

Best Wishes,
Dave

Additional Comment:

OK, Please come & take a look & post your suggestions.

I know it is far from finished, but I need your input to "get it right",
especially your suggestions as to the format.

Many Thanks,
Dave

Last edited by davidhammock200 : 04-21-2009 at 09:26 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhammock200 View Post
V/A ratings were very useful back when most PSU's didn't have any PFC, now that almost all PSU's have Active PFC, it is pretty useless. Wattage is almost always about 60% of the V/A rating.
Sorry, but this doesn't answer my question. Why does it seem to be around 60%? For example, a UPS that has a 1000VA/670W rating is capable of supplying an additional 742VAR of reactive power while delivering 670W to reach the peak output of 1000VA. This means at full tilt, it can supply a load with PF of 0.67, which is extremely low for a modern computer system. What makes the UPS so well tuned for quadrature power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhammock200 View Post
V/A is reactive, reflected or better yet "apparent" load & causes the power grid to over estimate wattage, thus thicker wiring, bigger breakers, larger transformers, etc. are used than are actually necessary for the wattage.
And no, this is incorrect. VA is the magnitude of both the reactive and real power (also known as complex); it isn't just purely reactive. Nor does VA "overestimate" required power since many appliances that are inductive in nature, such as those that contain compressors, motors and AC transformers, will draw reactive power. I laugh at the thought of a world with only real power.
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:15 AM   #11
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David, a question regarding UPS~PSU correlation:
I'm running a 750W PSU and I'm looking into getting a UPS. If I get a UPS with a lower wattage rating than my PSU, is that going to cause trouble? I understand electricity and power and everything, but when it comes to wattage ratings on things I can just never tell, especially since (last I checked) PSU's don't run at their rated wattage 24/7.

Please share your wisdom
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewecallgod View Post
Sorry, but this doesn't answer my question. Why does it seem to be around 60%? For example, a UPS that has a 1000VA/670W rating is capable of supplying an additional 742VAR of reactive power while delivering 670W to reach the peak output of 1000VA. This means at full tilt, it can supply a load with PF of 0.67, which is extremely low for a modern computer system. What makes the UPS so well tuned for quadrature power?

And no, this is incorrect. VA is the magnitude of both the reactive and real power (also known as complex); it isn't just purely reactive. Nor does VA "overestimate" required power since many appliances that are inductive in nature, such as those that contain compressors, motors and AC transformers, will draw reactive power. I laugh at the thought of a world with only real power.
This is type of BS that I am trying to avoid, as it doesn't help anyone in selecting a proper UPS!

Wattage rating is approximately equal to 60% of V/A rating on ALL UPS's, this is explained & discussed in APC white papers & on dedicated IEEE power system forums & is NOT going to become a BS issue here!

The exact same answer to reactive power.

PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!

This is to help people choose a proper UPS for their system(s).


Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELItheICEman View Post
David, a question regarding UPS~PSU correlation:
I'm running a 750W PSU and I'm looking into getting a UPS. If I get a UPS with a lower wattage rating than my PSU, is that going to cause trouble? I understand electricity and power and everything, but when it comes to wattage ratings on things I can just never tell, especially since (last I checked) PSU's don't run at their rated wattage 24/7.

Please share your wisdom
No, not at all, as your PSU only draws what power it actually needs to power your system.

If your system uses 300W of DC power & the PSU is 80% efficient, then the PSU will draw only 375W from the wall, regardless of its max rated output.

A 450W PSU will only draw 375W.

A 550W PSU will only draw 375W.

A 650W PSU will only draw 375W.

A 750W PSU will only draw 375W.

Always Build with the Best!
Dave

Last edited by davidhammock200 : 04-21-2009 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:35 PM   #13
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That's how I figured it would be. Just wanted to be sure before I go buying some 800W UPS.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhammock200 View Post
This is type of BS that I am trying to avoid, as it doesn't help anyone in selecting a proper UPS!

Wattage rating is approximately equal to 60% of V/A rating on ALL UPS's, this is explained & discussed in APC white papers & on dedicated IEEE power system forums & is NOT going to become a BS issue here!

The exact same answer to reactive power.
Then PLEASE show me the link because EVERYTHING you said in the previous post goes against what I have learned in my power systems class. I know you do not have a background in electrical engineering, which is what I am a third year in, so really, you can't use these roundabout answers on me. If you do not know the answer to a question, DO NOT tell me I am wrong and leave it at that.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:58 PM   #15
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@ onewecallgod:
I don't think he's telling you you're wrong--it sounds more like he's trying to simplify this matter by keeping the technical lingo out of it. This way, non-EE's can get an idea of what to look for without getting bat**** confused.

I understand your frustration here. I'm an EE student as well, and I know there's more to it than is explained. If you want to discuss further theory feel free to PM me anytime.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:18 PM   #16
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Folks, I am not going to spend the time necessary to run this down & post links for the sheer purpose of why wattage is approximately 60% of V/A on most UPS's. I do not know & I really do not care either!

I was an engineering tech helping to design & test switching regulators almost 30yrs ago.

Why does voltage times amperage equal wattage? If I was a math or physics prof I would know & care, but it does & it works.

Not trying to design new UPS's or complete the Unified Field theory...

What I am trying to do here with your help is to create the first & only truly useful UPS Guide for EOCF & other similar forums as apparently none exist.

Best Wishes,
Dave

Last edited by davidhammock200 : 04-22-2009 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 04-21-2009, 05:18 PM   #17
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I've understood that from the get-go. Just trying to clarify for anyone else.
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:31 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ELItheICEman View Post
I've understood that from the get-go. Just trying to clarify for anyone else.
Thank you very much!

I could really use some EE help here.

TBK, there are no professional UPS reviews or review sites, no accepted testing methodologies, no real "everyone agrees/understands" type of standards for consumer level UPS's.

There is personal opinion & experience, but little else at the consumer level.

Besides being an engineering tech 30yrs ago, I was CEO for a company back in 1991 & we set-up 2 EDC's with full redundant back ups & everything, but that was also over $3M & has little to do with consumer level UPS's.

So together we chart new territory!

Always Build with the Best!
Dave

Last edited by davidhammock200 : 04-22-2009 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 04-22-2009, 02:03 AM   #19
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Dave, I am using an APC Smart-UPS XL 750VA USB & Serial 120V
http://www.apcc.com/resource/include...e_sku=SUA750XL

It's 600 Watts and can be found for under $400.

It's a nice fit in output and price between the 500 watt and 670 watt units you already have linked.

With the system in my sig, I get about 75 minutes of runtime on battery.
That's running the computer, router, modem, speakers and 24" Samsung LCD monitor.
Its fan is quiet, the unit is heavy as sin, but it needs airflow so I wouldn't recommend installing it in an enclosure.

I have nothing but positive things to say about it, but then I've been using APC UPS' for 15 years and given my experience I have no reason to even look at another brand.

Earl
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Old 04-22-2009, 10:42 AM   #20
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Quote:
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That's how I figured it would be. Just wanted to be sure before I go buying some 800W UPS.
Yes. David is correct about power draw from the wall.

There are a lot of good reasons to just go ahead and get the best UPS you are comfortable with.

You can get refurbished APC SmartUPS 1500's for around $300 plus another $100 if you need to replace the battery.

Getting something in the 1000w range, like the SmartUPS 1500, gives you a lot of headroom for longer run times and the ability to add another PC in the future. Getting something like that will give a system that draws 400w from the wall about 25 minutes of run time. That will give you plenty of time to finish tasks and perform shutdowns. You could also get a slightly lower wattage PSU that has an external port for adding additional external battery packs. The SmartUPS 1500 doesn't have one but I believe you can get the 1000 and 1400 with an external port. APC usually puts an "XL" behind the model number for UPS's that have an external port.
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