Unsure project...

[johnksss]

ok...this is unsure, because i haven't quite decided just what im going to do yet.
i just picked up a (possible 3/4 hp) compressor out of a 12k portable ac/heater.
compressor seems to be a bit short on oil, from what i drained out of it. i got like 4 oz only...and it should be around 8 or so if im thinking right...

so im thinking since my old condenser is leaking and im upgrading that...thought might as well try upgrading the compressor as well...
go from this...

specs on compressor
http://www.samsung.com/global/busine...ification.html




to something with these parts installed..









"curtesy of drewmeister"


any ideas or criticism welcomes...but no need to mention the old faithful phase change condition as it has served me well. and still is...even if it has a hair line crack in the condenser...lol

[Drewmeister]

Now that's the way to upgrade!

Make sure to check the condenser and evap for the remaining oil. Normally compressors of that capacity have around 280cc of oil. The specs on this page are showing 360cc for the 092s. Too much oil can cause problems. I would try emailing their tech support just to make sure. You could have just used 5% r290 with the r507 vs changing the oil.

I wouldn't bother with flushing the compressor with anything like I did. Just heat the compressor while draining it... let it drain overnight, shake it around some too. There can be up to 5% mineral with the POE. You need to wet rag the electrical terminal and side of the compressor to protect the windings when brazing that access valve in. You will need oxy/acety or oxy/mapp to braze that.

That's gonna be a strong unit!

[johnksss]

Originally Posted by Drewmeister

Now that's the way to upgrade!

Make sure to check the condenser and evap for the remaining oil. Normally compressors of that capacity have around 280cc of oil.

one of the evaps was seriously trashed
and the other one seems to be intact..with 3 seperate cap lines to it..
still may go with the drew special, if i decide to do another build instead.

The specs on this page are showing 360cc for the 092s. Too much oil can cause problems. I would try emailing their tech support just to make sure. You could have just used 5% r290 with the r507 vs changing the oil.
now that i wish i would have read!

I wouldn't bother with flushing the compressor with anything like I did. Just heat the compressor while draining it... let it drain overnight, shake it around some too. There can be up to 5% mineral with the POE. You need to wet rag the electrical terminal and side of the compressor to protect the windings when brazing that access valve in. You will need oxy/acety or oxy/mapp to braze that.

That's gonna be a strong unit!

okey dokey! it's hanging upside down now as we speak.

oh well...in case i ever need to drain it, the ports will already be there..

side note:
but i think it was the right thing to do since this thing has been sitting with cut copper for quite some time...better to be safe than sorry later.

[Drewmeister]

Yep, definitely better to be safe than sorry. If it was only open for a few days to a week or so then shouldn't be a problem as long as you have a good vacuum pump. Of course if it was open for months then yes you should change it. Mineral and AB oil aren't that hygroscopic, the moisture that is absorbed can normally be pumped out with a good long evac.

As you probably already know, POE oil is very hygroscopic and is near impossible to get all the moisture out of it. They always say to keep the exposure time to air under 15 minutes. That's why I don't recommend flushing the compressor with POE, the little bit(under 5%) of mineral or ab in there won't hurt anything. The last oil change I did I flushed with denatured alcohol. Just a quick swish around, drain and blow out with compressed air. I then leave upside down for an hour or so with a heater on the shell to drain/evaporate any left over alcohol. The main reason I did the flush was to make sure all metal particles were out and to get rid of most of the oil coating on the inside of the compessor so it doesn't burn during the brazing.

You should braze the unit up first and leak check before adding the POE oil to the compressor. You can suck the oil into the compressor under vacuum... do that at the very start of the evac. Put the same amount back in that you drained out of each side. The high side contains the most oil. The low side may only have 10-20c. If the amount you drained comes up short then always put back the full oil charge according to the compressor manufacturer's specs.

The captube size will have a huge impact on performance and can make or break the build. You mentioned in pm that this was going to be a bencher for several different types of cpu's. You can keep things simple and select a captube for 300+ watts to cover all cpu's and benchmarks. You could also select a captube for a lighter load and vary the charge per bench or cpu for max oc. Personally I leave the gauges hooked up to my bencher and tweak the charge accordingly. I eventually found an optimal balance between all benchmarks and gaming. Get the light stuff done first, max cpu-z, super pi, etc, then add charge for the heavier stuff. A recovery tank makes this very easy. If you want to play it safe then go with 8-9ft of .036". If you want to tweak the charge for max performance for the various loads then go with 10-11ft .036" = 5-5.5ft of .031". Note that different evap designs may require more or less mass flowrate and or flooding to hold load. My recommendations are based on a system incorporating a Kayl evap and r402a or r507 refrigerant.

[johnksss]

Originally Posted by Drewmeister

Yep, definitely better to be safe than sorry. If it was only open for a few days to a week or so then shouldn't be a problem as long as you have a good vacuum pump. Of course if it was open for months then yes you should change it. Mineral and AB oil aren't that hygroscopic, the moisture that is absorbed can normally be pumped out with a good long evac.

so what is the best oil to run with r507 or a blend of sorts?

As you probably already know, POE oil is very hygroscopic and is near impossible to get all the moisture out of it. They always say to keep the exposure time to air under 15 minutes. That's why I don't recommend flushing the compressor with POE, the little bit(under 5%) of mineral or ab in there won't hurt anything. The last oil change I did I flushed with denatured alcohol. Just a quick swish around, drain and blow out with compressed air. I then leave upside down for an hour or so with a heater on the shell to drain/evaporate any left over alcohol. The main reason I did the flush was to make sure all metal particles were out and to get rid of most of the oil coating on the inside of the compessor so it doesn't burn during the brazing.
yes, we had a blaze on fire once.. wasn't funny at first, but after wards...lol

You should braze the unit up first and leak check before adding the POE oil to the compressor. You can suck the oil into the compressor under vacuum... do that at the very start of the evac. Put the same amount back in that you drained out of each side. The high side contains the most oil. The low side may only have 10-20c. If the amount you drained comes up short then always put back the full oil charge according to the compressor manufacturer's specs.

going to have to go off of manufactures specs..since i oil grabbed about 4 oz's out...

The captube size will have a huge impact on performance and can make or break the build. You mentioned in pm that this was going to be a bencher for several different types of cpu's. You can keep things simple and select a captube for 300+ watts to cover all cpu's and benchmarks. You could also select a captube for a lighter load and vary the charge per bench or cpu for max oc. Personally I leave the gauges hooked up to my bencher and tweak the charge accordingly. I eventually found an optimal balance between all benchmarks and gaming. Get the light stuff done first, max cpu-z, super pi, etc, then add charge for the heavier stuff. A recovery tank makes this very easy. If you want to play it safe then go with 8-9ft of .036". If you want to tweak the charge for max performance for the various loads then go with 10-11ft .036" = 5-5.5ft of .031". Note that different evap designs may require more or less mass flowrate and or flooding to hold load. My recommendations are based on a system incorporating a Kayl evap and r402a or r507 refrigerant.

i want to be able to tweak for max loads and light loads.(say sandy bridge - when its ready for cold)
i have just about everything. i should have access to a recovery machine and tank i think. i'll check on that in the morning as well.
and ill grab 11 to 12ft of .036 cap tube. putting my will call order in in the morning.

thanks again drew for pointing me in the right direction!

Additional Comment:

also drew,
can this be used to recover r507?
http://www.inficonrefrigerantrecover...x_brochure.pdf

[Drewmeister]

Yep, that's a real nice one. You won't need that for tweaking the charge though. You just need a suitable recovery bottle to purge a small amount of excess refrigerant for lower loads and suck back in for heavy load. This way no refrigerant is ever vented or wasted. You just keep reusing the original charge. The recovery unit will come in handy whenever you need to recover the whole charge.

[johnksss]

wait? all i need is a recovery bottle??
i dont need the recovery machine? even though i might just grab that any old way...lol. since i like having all my own tools

like this?


also, still waiting to hear what oil i should put back into the compressor...wondering if i should just go with AB so im safe with what ever refrigerant is put back in..(r507 more than likely)
thanks

Additional Comment:

and also, i tried leaving feed back but it wont let me.

[Drewmeister]

Every builder should have a recovery unit. I'm just saying that the actual tweaking will not require the recovery unit. You will basically bleed off excess refrigerant into the bottle from the phase unit's highside and then suck back in through the lowside. The phase unit does all the work. You just have to do it slowly so no oil is lost.

Put POE back in, that's what r507 requires. http://www.refrigerants.com/frame.htm

[johnksss]

ok, got it.

hummmm, now im wondering just where to put this high side access port. i dont want any oil getting sucked out. or can i put it close to where the old one was on the old setup??

and the port which is now on top of the compressor would be considered the low side, correct?

sorry for the noob questions, but i have been going over every inch of your ss thread and cant really tell what is what. i know you have that red thing on there...what is that..a high pressure access port?

[Drewmeister]

The port on top of the compressor is on the highside and should not be used for charging. Use a filter/drier with built in access valve. The lowside valve goes on the suction line before the accumulator. You can pattern your unit after the gp-x if you like. You can see how the whole unit is assembled at this thread. http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...d.php?t=233124

The red thingy on the ss-x is a manual reset high pressure safety switch. I since relocated it to a horizontal plain do reduce the risk of any particles getting in it.

[johnksss]

ok, got it...
do you sell the case bottom as well. the one for the rotary?

[Drewmeister]

Yes, I can help you out with the base or even a complete case if you want. I have metalic silver and white aluminium in stock atm. pm me

[johnksss]

check out the first test run...still old setup..getting ready to redo it this weekend. but the idea you gave me works like a charm!!

[Drewmeister]

Do I see -50.Xc temp there? Tweaking the charge per load can net huge gains in performance. Just make sure to keep a close an eye on the compressor temp.

Chiller? Specs?

I see a pimped out double stack condenser there too!!

You got a lot of stuff going on there!!!

[johnksss]

Originally Posted by Drewmeister

Do I see -50.Xc temp there? Tweaking the charge per load can net huge gains in performance. Just make sure to keep a close an eye on the compressor temp.
yes it is. -50C. woohoo! but im only benching mobile cpu's right now. while i prep my classified
yep, keeping an on her for sure. good thing i now have a back up compressor also...

Chiller? Specs? 4k btu, or 0C or 32F is as low as it goes. dbm-250 artica chiller. and that is my sealed water tank right there as well. as you can see..it's pretty **** small..lol. but does the job very well.

I see a pimped out double stack condenser there too!! oh yeah, i got that from a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy to be you...that guy.

You got a lot of stuff going on there!!!

oh yeah, got a few things there. haha
and nope, that condenser isn't hooked up yet. that will be this weekend.

Additional Comment:

had a question about torches....
can almost any torch be used?

Additional Comment:

also wondering if any of these torches would be good to use for very light work (such as brazing and sweating) im not about to spend thousands of dollars on something i may use twice.(for real and the rest of the time learning)

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

http://www.google.com/products/catal...JABEPMCMAY4Hg#

http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_1...01P?mv=rr#desc

[blinker0]

MAPP/OXY yes

Propane not for brazing

[johnksss]

ok, so the first link then?

[Drewmeister]

Yes.. get the BernzOmatic Oxygen MAPP Brazing Torch Kit. You might want to pick up an extra bottle of oxygen. You can conserve the oxygen by using a BernzOmatic Sure Fire Torch Head for the lighter joints or any soldering.

[johnksss]

thanks!. but looking at the packaging...i dont see how i would add that tip???

[blinker0]

just disconnect Mapp/Oxy set up and put turbo torch on your map bottle.