Some help deciding if this is enough for my thermal load.

[DarkFox]

So simple questions I hope here.

Currently I have a dual 120 heater core with a DD5 pump going to my Core 2 Duo.

I am looking to convert this setup for up comming rebuild. I am planning on a overclocked 2600k and 2x GTX470s so i can drive a tripple 24" setup I am thinking about putting together.

I think my pump is suited for the task, I will likly go with the EK blocks for my video cards, and a danger den block for the I7.

I am looking at this radiator:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsrx3xrare2.html
with some mid flow fans.

Is this enough rad for what I want? Not like I'm gonna be running this to bench or fold 24/7. Just want to be able to reliably game with it cooler then air.

[AngelEyes]

I am no expert on thermal load, but I can tell when someone already knows the answer to the question they are asking

But I am all for a healthy imagination and using fantasy to easy the burden of knowing deep down in your soul that, in the end, your going to have to dish out a bit more cash for that set of parts to be looped.

[musicfan]

Originally Posted by DarkFox

So simple questions I hope here.

Currently I have a dual 120 heater core with a DD5 pump going to my Core 2 Duo.

I am looking to convert this setup for up comming rebuild. I am planning on a overclocked 2600k and 2x GTX470s so i can drive a tripple 24" setup I am thinking about putting together.

I think my pump is suited for the task, I will likly go with the EK blocks for my video cards, and a danger den block for the I7.

I am looking at this radiator:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsrx3xrare2.html
with some mid flow fans.

Is this enough rad for what I want? Not like I'm gonna be running this to bench or fold 24/7. Just want to be able to reliably game with it cooler then air.

correct me if i understand you incorrectly...

you want to cool an oc 2600k - may be a bit under 300 W as you get closer to 5K and 1.35 to 1.4 V on this thread and sli 470gtx - 567 W

i don't understand the pump model so please link and give entire loop; most pumps should be ok with a cpu & 2 gpu + rads

you radiator is a RX360; i own one and like it but wash it out well; on to thermal data and the thumbnail chart is from that link

let's say we are trying to cool 800 W but maybe less if you decide you don't really want to benchmark that brand new 2600k

to cool 800 W with a reasonable delta T of 10 C on your RX360, you will need 38 mm, 2700 rpm fans and those will be very loud (with the thumbnail go all the way to 800 W on the X and to a delta T of 10 C on the Y - the only fan that will do that delta T is a 2700 rpm - the black line)

see fan test 2 and tests 6 & 8 to read and listen; some like LMHmedchem do well with the 38 mm Delta fans so you might glance at his active threads in this forum or consider the Delta recommended by Martinm in the links

how is your noise tolerance? 2700 rpm would be too much for me but you could try under-volting at idle with a controller if that is all you can fit

more rad would mean you could cool with slower and quieter fans

many water-coolers who build for others and believe that standard medium fans are 1200 - 1850 rpm would say the 120.3 would not provide adequate cooling but that gets pretty subjective as you see

hope that helps; please ask questions; good luck

[Spawn-Inc]

for what your asking of it, i would opt for the quad 120mm, or that much rad, for cooler then air temp gaming.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsrx4xrare2.html

the pump will handle that correct.

[DarkFox]

for my pump, guess I should have said DD12 -D5
http://www.dangerden.com/store/dd12v...-by-laing.html

@ Angleeys, did not know the answer thats why I asked

@ music fan, thanks for the info for the load on the 2600k, didnt realize it was that high, I had thought they were much lower on this gen. Also, do you think the thermal load is indicative of a "normal use" on the graphics card? I had seen someone else list the same number there, but not sure if that is normal gaming load or like stress testing load. Granted I would like more then I need.

Also I think you were involved in another thread I had where I was gonna go with tons of radiator and go with quiet fans. Well the budget has shifted so trying to see what i can stuff in my thermaltak Armor case and regular noise fans are fine.

The fans I'm looking at are something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835226013

@ spawn
Need to go measure to see if the 120.4s will fit.

[musicfan]

Originally Posted by DarkFox

for my pump, guess I should have said DD12 -D5
http://www.dangerden.com/store/dd12v...-by-laing.html

@ Angleeys, did not know the answer thats why I asked

@ music fan, thanks for the info for the load on the 2600k, didnt realize it was that high, I had thought they were much lower on this gen. Also, do you think the thermal load is indicative of a "normal use" on the graphics card? I had seen someone else list the same number there, but not sure if that is normal gaming load or like stress testing load. Granted I would like more then I need.

Also I think you were involved in another thread I had where I was gonna go with tons of radiator and go with quiet fans. Well the budget has shifted so trying to see what i can stuff in my thermaltak Armor case and regular noise fans are fine.

The fans I'm looking at are something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835226013

@ spawn
Need to go measure to see if the 120.4s will fit.

hi DarkFox,

you are correct the TDP for the 2600k is 95 W compared to 130 W for my venerable 920; the funny thing is the 2600k oc's so well that most who write (brag?) in the threads are reporting mid 4's on air & over 5 on water at 1.35 to 1.4 v; no one seems to be pushing much beyond that so if you limit the oc GHz to the same range as the 920 would do - say low 4's - you will be far closer to TDP

same with the cards; most reports are wall load watts; this psu calculator shows about 380 W with two SLI gtx470's rather than the wall-value 567 W but that's why i left the link; you are correct that the blocks really don't cool all that comes through the wall as some is lost in the air; moreover benchmarks are artificial for many as it is hard to generate all the heat in real practice that you might with utilities like prime 95 + furmark...but it's hard to find "better" data for you without even more guessing

the fans you are looking at are 38 x 120 so make sure they can fit your case; i can't find tests - just reports - so it sounds like they undervolt well and are pretty quiet but have mixed results as rad fans?

you might consider high speed yate loons with a controller as they are standard fare and cheap; the more rad for you up to 120.5 or 120.6 the better of course (quieter fans) but you know that since that was your old plan; please keep asking questions; good luck

---------
add: i went back up to the thermal data for the xspc rx 120.3 and even at 600 W, you will need 1800 rpm fans to get a delta T of 10 C so just decide what your wattage will be and plug it into the X axis, then read the fan speed you need for a delta T of 10 C - you would really benefit from an extra 120.1 or 120.2

and since we are talking higher speed fans, why go to the expense of an xspc rx, which takes a prize < 1000-1200 rpm but not at 1400 rpm or higher? you might consider a swiftech rad to save money and allow that 120.4 as Spawn-Inc suggests but a Swifty to keep the price down; or if you want highest performance from high-speed fans, consider a black ice gtx extreme, which is a waste of money at low to medium speeds but a value at high speed (please see thumbnail for how it pulls away at 2200 rpm where the Yate Loons high speeds would peak and cools > 800 W - that chart is from the radiators link in my signature)

just throwing out ideas to try to save you $ or improve performance - feel free to ignore or ask away; we won't abandon you when you have to fit the rad

and i missed your pump link until now - sorry - the Laing D5 is great and can handle your loop with ease

[DarkFox]

Hey guys, may have to go a different way. Wondering about radiators that are double or tripple wide. I guess like the one in Spawn's sig. I'm not gonna be able to get a quad high, but thinking like a 2 X 3 or 3 X 3 rad. So far the only one I have seen is the Megicool one. Any recomendations?

[musicfan]

Hi DarkFox,

I think that Spawn-Inc has an external radiator mounting that allows him to use three Swiftech 120.3 radiators for extreme radiator surface area of 120.9 that allows him to use 3 high speed Yate Loon fans under-volted to 5 v to achieve a quiet water-cooling experience; his build thread is here...i think that is his latest - unless he has a new rig; Spawn-Inc should be by this afternoon or this evening and can share how he did this

so are you interested in an external mounting of rads inside a separate enclosure? (major modding)

or are we trying to figure how to best drape 120.4 worth of rad inside and around your case? (minor modding)

could you please remind us what case you are using? thanks

add: here is link to quad testing, you may need Google or Firefox translate but the tables along the bottom show the Swiftech to be in the middle of the pack. Good luck

add add: DarkFox, I was reminded elsewhere that if you don't OC, you can simply use the manufacturer's TDP of your components to calculate stock thermal load. The TDP of your gtx470 card is 215 W according to the manufacturer so if you double that for SLI, you will get 430 W. And the TDP of a 2600k chip is 95 W as per Intel. Together those = 525 W of non-synthetic stock-load testing by the manufacturers. You can use that as your thermal load if you don't OC. But when you OC, then it's difficult to be accurate. Usually a tester dials in an OC, loads GPU using games or Furmark, and measures changes using wall readings. So the OC results can be a bit variable. Hope that makes a bit more sense. That is how I understand it today but times change.

[DarkFox]

I'm not looking to go all that far into it. I OC but dont bother measuring my wall usage, I look at how the system is performing then see if I need more.

All I am looking to do right now, is try to find a single radiator that I can cut open the side of my case and I can make a shroud to mount it to. I have a thermaltake armor case. I am looking at this:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11...?tl=g30c95s667

or
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12...?tl=g30c95s667

But heard mixed reviews on those models. Thats why I'm asking if there are others out there, made in this style but with better performance.

I COULD buy 3 radiator and daisy chain em but I really dont want to.

[Spawn-Inc]

Originally Posted by musicfan

Hi DarkFox,

I think that Spawn-Inc has an external radiator mounting that allows him to use three Swiftech 120.3 radiators for extreme radiator surface area of 120.9 that allows him to use 3 high speed Yate Loon fans under-volted to 5 v to achieve a quiet water-cooling experience; his build thread is here...i think that is his latest - unless he has a new rig; Spawn-Inc should be by this afternoon or this evening and can share how he did this

well 18 fans total, but 3 is close

@DarkFox - i think those are your only options for a single rad setup. otherwise dasiy chaining is the only thing. there is nothing wrong with it and if you want a low profile type deal instead of using lots of tubing, as i did, you can buy some 90's (ideally rotary long radius ones here) and join them that way.

based solely on my hunch and knowledge of rads i would say it performs pretty much on par with swiftech's rads. it has 13 FPI and is 45mm thick, the swiftech rads have 14-15 FPI and are 34mm thick. so the magicool ones should do a bit better actually.

what bad reviews did you hear, any links?

[musicfan]

Wow I did not know those existed so I can only do searches. I sent a message to Spawn-Inc to ask him to visit us this week.

In the mean time I Googled these controversial rads and found this interesting thread. It is 6 pages long, flows like a mystery, and gives a twist at the end that you may like.
----

add: that was fast and timely Spawn-Inc; sorry about my arithmetic, it's late

the link above is the only thread i read; it starts that the rad in theory has some issues but a guy buys one, and OC'ed the daylights out his chip to > 4.5 GHz so it has a happy ending; it's fun reading for water-cooling fanatics but if you start it, then you need to end it for the effect - especially waiting for load temps...

thanks for the thread DarkFox, i will stay subscribed

good night

[Spawn-Inc]

Originally Posted by musicfan

Wow I did not know those existed so I can only do searches. I sent a message to Spawn-Inc to ask him to visit us this week.

In the mean time I Googled these controversial rads and found this interesting thread. It is 6 pages long, flows like a mystery, and gives a twist at the end that you may like.
----

add: that was fast and timely Spawn-Inc; sorry about my arithmetic, it's late

the link above is the only thread i read; it starts that the rad in theory has some issues but a guy buys one, and OC'ed the daylights out his chip to > 4.5 GHz so it has a happy ending; it's fun reading for water-cooling fanatics but if you start it, then you need to end it for the effect - especially waiting for load temps...

thanks for the thread DarkFox, i will stay subscribed

good night

that 9 120mm rad is a 4 pass rad as follows,




it has 2 end tanks on one side and 3 on the other, so it has to be 4 pass.

i helped a guy with his build of overkill on another forum who uses one of them a while back, link

[DarkFox]

just looked at those posts... Looking good. Think thats what I am gonna end up getting, just need to take some measurements in my case to see what I need to chop to make it happen.

Additional Comment:

Made some measurments, its gonna be tight, but... I think I'm gonna snag that 360.3 rad. I'll need to chop up some of the side panel, some of the 5 1/4" bays, and a crossmember in the case, but I can get it in.

[musicfan]

congratulations are in order; are you going with 9 Yate Loon high speeds?

[DarkFox]

why do people love those fans? Just wondering what the deal is, when you low volt them do you end up with better then average flow to sound ratio?

Additional Comment:

Kinda diggign the specs on this fan:
http://www.jab-tech.com/Scythe-KAZE-...m-pr-3943.html

[Spawn-Inc]

Originally Posted by DarkFox

why do people love those fans? Just wondering what the deal is, when you low volt them do you end up with better then average flow to sound ratio?

Additional Comment:

Kinda diggign the specs on this fan:
http://www.jab-tech.com/Scythe-KAZE-...m-pr-3943.html

yates are wicked as they undervolt very well. IMO the high speed yates are silent at 5v. as well the cost.

as for those slip streams, i believe they aren't the best fans for use with rads due to the low pressures they produce.

[DarkFox]

hmmm, those specifiacly mentioned good static pressure, but did not state what it is.

"Silent to Power User Ready
Silent user can obtain more airflow without sacrificing in noise level and power user can get extra airflow from the static pressure feature. Total "

[Spawn-Inc]

i got the info from martin and i guess i didn't check back, here is a thread on the very subject, http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=229070

[musicfan]

Originally Posted by DarkFox

why do people love those fans? Just wondering what the deal is, when you low volt them do you end up with better then average flow to sound ratio?

Additional Comment:

Kinda diggign the specs on this fan:
http://www.jab-tech.com/Scythe-KAZE-...m-pr-3943.html

Yate-Loons are very inexpensive and work so well they are standards at Skinnee Labs and others doing testing. There are many satisfied water-coolers like Spawn-Inc. Smooth under-volting makes it easy to recommend to performance water-coolers on a budget who are willing to use voltage control on their fans or want many fans for push + pull.

With the 1200 rpm slipstream, there are good and bad issues. The good is a thread that tests it as a air-cooler for a processor and get dBA and cooling that approximates a medium YL. That is good so we have a comparison. Another thread has + testimonial but also contains the same warnings Spawn-Inc mentions about performance loss on a radiator. Unfortunately I could find no water-cooling testing of your fan on radiators.

Both are sleeve bearings fans, which usually fail sooner than more expensive fluid dynamic or ball bearing fans - that is a tie.

Going back to the 6 page novel is the poster was using between five and nine Noctua p-12 ULNA 900 rpm. That is great news. And also he says the radiator was not restrictive so that should make your pump happy. Both were opposite of what was anticipated in the first half of that thread.

IMO:

1. Either fan should work but the YL is cheaper and the money saved could go toward a controller that would give you the best of both quiet and performance...and...
2. Let's make sure Spawn-Inc agrees that one Laing D5 pump will keep that big radiator happy.

Keep us posted.

add: as usual i am a couple posts late to the party - sorry got distracted reading links - but Spawn's link reinforces my suggestion that either fans will work so either 1) go cheap, or 2) go with gentle typhoons.

Spawn-Inc - what about the single D5 and the 120.9/1080? Is that ok? thanks...

[Spawn-Inc]

the single D5 can do the job, though 2 would be nice for peace of mind. i can run my setup with just the one pump and not have temps change.