Apple busted for false advertising

**chris4404** · 04-03-2008, 11:14 AM

Be careful your product lives up to what you advertise it to be and be careful it does what you say it will do; that's the lesson that many tech companies are learning the hard way. Microsoft recently found that out as its facing an uphill battle to fight against a class lawsuit alleging it intentionally deceived using "Vista Capable" stickers to sell chipsets.

Now Apple is mired in a similar mess, based on some of its a bit exaggerated claims. Apple's bold advertising claim that its MacBooks support "millions of colors." The only problem -- MacBook LCD are only 6-bit TFT models, only allowing for only 262,144 colors. A true 8-bit display would indeed support "millions of colors", 16,777,216 colors in fact. However, Apple opted to ditch the eight bit display in favor of a cheaper 6 bit one, despite the high cost of Macs.

Article

BRONiUS · 04-03-2008, 11:25 AM

Heh, nothing new. Everybody lies :P

siegen · 04-03-2008, 11:53 AM

Is there a noticeable different between the two?

A few crayons short, lol.

Fourth · 04-03-2008, 12:22 PM

No way... I don't buy it. This must be fake. Apple are the saints of the computer industry. They would never lie, cheat, or anything like that.... they even say they are BETTER! They told me... I trust them, not some cacamamy news story based on facts and hardware. Mac 4ev, PC sucks.

Ozz81 · 04-03-2008, 12:25 PM

Obviously there must be a difference, or else nobody would've noticed and found out. But if this is just surfacing, it makes you wonder what else they may have been lying about in regard to other machines (e.g. previous MacBooks, iMacs, etc.). Not saying that Mac is the only company that's lied, but maybe whomever found out about the display needs to investigate further into some other companies and make sure they're giving out what they advertise.

Fourth · 04-03-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozz81

Obviously there must be a difference, or else nobody would've noticed and found out. But if this is just surfacing, it makes you wonder what else they may have been lying about in regard to other machines (e.g. previous MacBooks, iMacs, etc.).

It's somewhat unlikely one would see the difference with the human eye. However, if you are slick and know what you are looking at, you can probably open the monitor and check the parts to see what exactly the monitor is made of.

OmgWtfIDiedLol · 04-03-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourth

It's somewhat unlikely one would see the difference with the human eye. However, if you are slick and know what you are looking at, you can probably open the monitor and check the parts to see what exactly the monitor is made of.

Not really, when you're doing graphical work (which you will be doing since OMG MAC amirite), it's easy to pick 2 close colors and notice that they appear as exactly the same when they **** well shouldn't be. Also the human eye is pretty sensitive to color, considering that this # of colors has to take into account every shade of every tint possible.

FunkZ · 04-03-2008, 01:13 PM

A case of the engineering department, or more likely the cost-cutting accounting department, not keeping the marketing department in the loop.

ValueSize · 04-03-2008, 01:15 PM

This is really really old. And Apple can rightfully say they DO support millions of colors by dithering. Professionals have their panties in a wad but realistically how much ultra-high res, specific color jobs do you do on your laptop? LCDs don't have the best color representation anyway...

I don't think they should be 6bit panels but I also think this lawsuit isn't going to make it.

Is this just the Macbook or the Macbook pro also? I notice the dithering on my gf's MB but not on my MBP.

ythe1300 · 04-03-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValueSize

This is really really old. And Apple can rightfully say they DO support millions of colors by dithering. Professionals have their panties in a wad but realistically how much ultra-high res, specific color jobs do you do on your laptop? LCDs don't have the best color representation anyway...

I don't think they should be 6bit panels but I also think this lawsuit isn't going to make it.

Is this just the Macbook or the Macbook pro also? I notice the dithering on my gf's MB but not on my MBP.

For the MBP to I have seen a little on the 15" MBP a friend has but not on the 17" MBP of another friend (both non-glare) It's kind of hard to tell with the MBP, (Unlike my iBook, where you can see that it's not as "clear"). Any way I still think that it's bum that they are doing this even though I have known about it for a while. Are 8 bit panels really still that expensive?

bftek · 04-03-2008, 05:30 PM

The Mac Books use TN panels like 90% of all computer monitors do.
And all of those manufactures lie about it too.
If you want to sue Apple about this you have to sue every LCD manufacturer.
It's not going to happen.

The only panels capable of truly displaying all those colors are non TN panels.
Doing design on a laptop is silly anyways.
And if you do it professionally you should know all about monitors and color reproduction.

This whole lawsuit is ****ing stupid.

RAWR

Edited for corrections.

AntiNazi · 04-03-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bftek

This whole lawsuit is ****ing stupid.

Maybe they should all be sued. If I sold you an 8800gt and when you opened the box it was a 7600gt, I'd have a ****ing fraud case on my hands, but if a corporation does it you are willing to defend them? I hope you'd be on my jury and tell the plaintiff to deal with it, cause other people do it every day too and they didn't get caught yet.

bftek · 04-03-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntiNazi

Maybe they should all be sued. If I sold you an 8800gt and when you opened the box it was a 7600gt, I'd have a ****ing fraud case on my hands, but if a corporation does it you are willing to defend them? I hope you'd be on my jury and tell the plaintiff to deal with it, cause other people do it every day too and they didn't get caught yet.

That example doesn't work, and doesn't relate.
They aren't lying.
They're tricking people.
If all manufactures said hey, you'll only get 262K true colors. People wouldn't buy them.
So the monitors make up the other colors by dithering, by displaying a mix of colors to emulate the real color.

Again, they aren't lying, the monitor can display all the colors to the human eye. But only so many are "true" colors. That's why this wont hold up in court.

The equivalent of your example would be buying a 17" MBP and getting a 15" MBP.
A good example would be buying a SilentX fan rated for 70CMF at 18 DBA, taking it home doing research to find it only has 30CMF and is really 25 DBA, and then trying to sue SilentX for false advertising. They arn't lying, they just used a different testing method that favored their product.

If the owner of this Mac Book would have done research, he could have found this out before he bought it.
Tricking people into buying things is a key part of marketing and selling stuff.
This qoute from eXclusive in the Water Cooling section is pretty much a key example of how things work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXclusive

Cluelessness is really the most effective vice of marketing.

Pretty much. "What the consumer doesn't know, wont hurt him."

AntiNazi · 04-03-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bftek

That example doesn't work, and doesn't relate.
They aren't lying.
They're tricking people.
If all manufactures said hey, you'll only get 262K true colors. People wouldn't buy them.
So the monitors make up the other colors by dithering, by displaying a mix of colors to emulate the real color.

Again, they aren't lying, the monitor can display all the colors to the human eye. But only so many are "true" colors. That's why this wont hold up in court.

The equivalent of your example would be buying a 17" MBP and getting a 15" MBP.
A good example would be buying a SilentX fan rated for 70CMF at 18 DBA, taking it home doing research to find it only has 30CMF and is really 25 DBA, and then trying to sue SilentX for false advertising. They arn't lying, they just used a different testing method that favored their product.

If the owner of this Mac Book would have done research, he could have found this out before he bought it.
Tricking people into buying things is a key part of marketing and selling stuff.
This qoute from eXclusive in the Water Cooling section is pretty much a key example of how things work.

Pretty much. "What the consumer doesn't know, wont hurt him."

In the US, tricking someone into buying something is called fraud.

Fourth · 04-03-2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bftek

If all manufactures said hey, you'll only get 262K true colors. People wouldn't buy them.

lawl. yea they would because thats all they would be able to get. if the best you can get is the best, you really cant get any better. whats the options here? buy the 262K one or no monitor at all?

i dont understand this logic here.

bftek · 04-03-2008, 07:08 PM

Just to clarify.
I'm not trying to defend them.
I would jump with joy if TN monitors were done with and everyone could enjoy 8 bits.

But I'm just speaking fact, and explaining why it's perfectly legal.

This lawsuit wont get anywhere unless all manufacturers are put on trial.
And that will never happen. They get to pretty much regulate themselfs in that since.

Additional Comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourth

lawl. yea they would because thats all they would be able to get. if the best you can get is the best, you really cant get any better. whats the options here? buy the 262K one or no monitor at all?

i dont understand this logic here.

Non TN 8bit panels, can truly display all the "millions" of colors. That would be the other option. (That includes P-MVA, S-IPS panels, ect)
Thing is, TN panels are the cheapest to make, thus why they are used in most consumer monitors.

Additional Comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntiNazi

In the US, tricking someone into buying something is called fraud.

No it isn't.
Saying your selling product 1, and really giving them product 2 is fraud.
Saying your selling product 1, and giving some one product 1a is not, it's called good marketing and every company does it, no mater what goods they sell. Whether it be computer parts or car parts.

Like I said, "technically" these monitors can display millions of colors.
But the cant "truly" display all the millions of colors.

Fourth · 04-03-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bftek

No it isn't.
Saying your selling product 1, and really giving them product 2 is fraud.
Saying your selling product 1, and giving some one product 1a is not, it's called good marketing and every company does it, no mater what goods they sell. Whether it be computer parts or car parts.

Like I said, "technically" these monitors can display millions of colors.
But the cant "truly" display all the millions of colors.

Quote:

In criminal law, fraud is the crime or offense of deliberately deceiving another in order to damage them – usually, to obtain property or services unjustly. [1] Fraud can be accomplished through the aid of forged objects. In the criminal law of common law jurisdictions it may be called "theft by deception," "larceny by trick," "larceny by fraud and deception" or something similar.

If AN's definition isn't fraud, i don't know what is.

AntiNazi · 04-03-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bftek

No it isn't.
Saying your selling product 1, and really giving them product 2 is fraud.
Saying your selling product 1, and giving some one product 1a is not, it's called good marketing and every company does it, no mater what goods they sell. Whether it be computer parts or car parts.

Like I said, "technically" these monitors can display millions of colors.
But the cant "truly" display all the millions of colors.

I can't quite understand you with your mouth full. Something from Corporate America might actually be caught DEEP in your THROAT.

bftek · 04-03-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourth

If AN's definition isn't fraud, i don't know what is.

Let's see, they aren't obtaining anything from the consumer, they aren't trying to damage them. They aren't using forged objects. The only thing similar is the word trick. Is April fools day fraud? No. Is Apple commiting fraud? No.

Again apple is not lying. Neither are all the other companies that do this, it's marketing. And it works especially well in elctronics because people are son uninformed about it.
An 8600GT performs less than a 7800GTX but which will the average consumer buy? The on with the bigger number.
They aren't breaking any laws. Whether you like or not.
If they were, they wouldn't be putting their reputations on the line for it.
Sorry guys, these companies aren't doing anything illegal in the least bit.
Is it morally right? Probably not, but morals don't apply to marketing.

Internet gambling is illegal in the US but people do it all the time, and companies advertise for it in US magizines and tv. Albeit bending the rules by using stratigic marketing stradigies. They get away with it.

Sorry guys it isn't illegal, and the fact Apple already went to court and won is proof enough of that.

Fourth · 04-03-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bftek

Let's see, they aren't obtaining anything from the consumer, they aren't trying to damage them.

Please mail all of your money to me. Apparently its nothing in your view, so I will be MORE then happy to take it off your hands. Please have all of your checks direct deposited to my account. Details are in PM.

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